Liveaboard Family Looking for a Miracle

[joethecobbler]

Good Morning Sailors, and the rest of you also.
Seems many are confused and vehemently opinionated. That's good , I guess.
Nothing more healthy than open discussion and airing of views.
I'll attempt to respond to each of you. I'm sure you'll let me know if I missed anything.

Bubb2- I read the thread you linked to. And I have to say it bolsters exactly the point I was trying to make. The buyer put his faith in the Broker and surveyor ,they got his money, and now he's screwed ! Is that a fair assessment of the situation? or am I not reading it right? My take on that-
Broker= used car salesman
Surveyor= Mechanic in pocket of aformentioned broker.
Un-informed,in-experienced,potential boat owner = easy mark for broker and surveyor.
Conclusion I draw - Maybe he should have spent more time in the library and the boatyard learning and educating himself , could have avoided present situation.
now he can spend time learning about maritime contract law.

Jim- Thanks for the race report, glad to hear you did well. Still a little cranky ? Sore muscles ? old age is tough. keep your chin up. And yes, expressing myself in a manner that is interpreted by a wide and varying audience IS a challenge. I 'll strive to do better in the future (with your help,of course).
Imagine2frolic - Allow me to clarify my "attitude" towards others (as previously pointed out , I need to improve my communication/writing skills)
I was attempting to point out that although you may NOT have a complete understanding of all the systems aboard and they seem overwhemingly complicated at first. YOU CAN LEARN and it can be rewarding and give you great piece of mind.Not to mention, should one of those systems fail when your in a less than favorable situation (is there a good situation for breakdowns) , you will be better equiped to truobleshoot and possibly repair the failure (avoiding tradjedy, or towing fees).
I have to concede that I often take for granted my ability to repair things (I refer to it as "the curse") , it has evolved from a lifetime of marginal poverty and the desire to have "things" , that I figured out early on in life, I might only get to play with second hand after I pulled them from the trash or found forgotten in someones back yard and repaired them myself w/ materials at hand.
To paraphrase- Neccesity is the mother of invention.

Sailaway21- Thank you for making my point, Many don't know the difference between Epoxy and fiberglas resin. or the different test methods available to troubleshoot problems and pinpoint the cause. That is exactly what I was trying to point out ! These truths are not disputed. What I am mystified at, is, why not LEARN ? There are piles of books on the topic,
Chapmans-new version every year
How to sail around the world- Hal Roth
Bernard Montessier- A sea vagabond's world
The thousand dollar yacht-Anthony Bailey
The complete Sailing Book- Peter cook and Barbara web
More Boatkeeper- (preceded by boatkeeper I presume) Bernard Gladstone
From a bare hull- ference mate
offshore crew-jeremy howard williams
Basic Sailing- M.B. george
The complete canvas workers guide- jim grant
designing small craft - john teale
Mariners rules of the road -william p. crawford
These are just what I pulled off the shelf behind me. I'm sure their are thousands more.
What could possibly be your objection to reading and learning? It's often how I pass my time when constrained by weather or other delays. And, I enjoy it ! every example you can give that shows someone paying to have services "professionaly" performed. I can show you 10 examples of people getting mistreated. And just as many hobbiests repairing there own sports cars,airplanes,boats,etc themselves and more often than not getting alot more out of the experience.
I didn't come out of the womb with any knowledge of boating (or anything else), I learned along the way (as we all do). One of the things I learned early on is that there is/are a never ending supply of people making false or questionable claims of abilities in an effort to influence you to hand over the cash.
I would have to suppose you would rather spend your time reading the fine print in a contract written by those, with often times, there own interests before yours, (salesmen,attorneys) than learning about a sport/lifestyle/hobby you enjoy.
I'm also considering that the reason my approach is foreign to you is because you may approach other aspects of you life in the same manner as you approach sailing. Pay somebody you want to believe knows more than you and hope you don't get ripped off.
where as I strive to pay no-one (usually because I cannot afford the outragious fees) and prefer to learn to do it myself.
Example- I wan't to learn about clamming in florida. I first read all available liturature I could find. Second-I answered an add from a commercial fisherman and explained I would like to learn to clam and would provide a days free labor in echange for the lesson. Now I clam whenever I want(and oyster also !) . he was happy for the help and I gained knowledge,a marketable skill and made an aquaintence. win-win all around.
I look forward to your responses and different interpretations of these and other sailing related issues.

[modul8]

Originally Posted by painkiller

Lay down? Are you making fun of me i2f? Every picture I've seen of an anchor, they're standing up. See?



Even on tattoos!



I'm just asking for help. You shouldn't make fun of someone asking for help.

a fine upstanding pair of tats. She must like the seamen!!!!

[imagine2frolic]

Originally Posted by painkiller

Lay down? Are you making fun of me i2f? Every picture I've seen of an anchor, they're standing up. See?



Even on tattoos!



I'm just asking for help. You shouldn't make fun of someone asking for help.

No Sir,

Just trying to be helpful .....i2f

[smackdaddy]

Joe - I personally agree with a good deal of what you're saying - and disagree with a good deal of it as well.

Bottom line is the "necessity" part of the mother of invention quip. That's a pretty big variable if you think about it. And at the end of the day it's an eternal balance.

You're mystified that someone would pay someone else with more experience to help in areas of one's ignorance. But if one has the means to do that - why the hell not? There is no immediate necessity for that person to reinvent a pretty complex and already-functional wheel. That's not to say that that person won't get scammed, overcharged, etc. every once in a while, especially if they let their guard down, but hey that's life. And if the person can foot the bill - cool.

The way I read some of your stuff, to truly succeed under your take, one would need to become a near expert in A LOT of areas BEFORE ever even buying a boat. Now on the one hand, your premise is pretty good in that it would keep a lot of people like me off the water and out of real sailors' way, but that's not real practical. I'm still going to sail - even though due to my ignorance of bleeding a diesel's spark plug infractionator - I'm a serious menace. No doubt.

Also, I definitely agree with your premise that the more an owner knows about his/her boat, the safer and more effective sailor they become. There's really not much of an argument there. I truly believe this and am working to learn and know as much as I possibly can.

But again, it comes back to necessity (and timing). If one strictly goes your route - which is definitely admirable and defensible in many ways - they won't be on the water for a looooonnnnggg time. Some might say that's fine - they don't want them there until they're "ready". But, c'mon, by those standards, virtually NO ONE is THAT ready at their first purchase and hoist.

Personally, in very general terms when it comes to sailing, I'll pay first and independently learn second. And, in the mean time, if you see an out of control C27 heeled way over and heading your way - you might wanna play it safe and assume I'm one of "those" people and bear off hard. Heh-heh.

[sailingSammy]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Sammy—

At least in every marina I've dealt with, if you wanted a slip, which is what it sounds like the OP has, you are REQUIRED TO HAVE INSURANCE. Usually, it is a minimum of $100,000 liability coverage.

If a boat and and RV are both being used for strictly shelter, then the boat is going to have higher maintenance, since the underwater gear still needs to be maintained to a certain degree—through-hulls, plumbing, etc, are still equipment that needs maintenance, even if the boat is not being used for transportation, since if they're not maintained, the boat WILL SINK. The plumbing on an RV can be ignored, and there will be no risk of the RV sinking.

Sorry it took so long to get back to the forum, but not being some keyboard commodore I was out actually sailing this weekend, I did have a chance to read all your posts though.
First let me say I can only speak from my own experience, I have had my boat in 3 different marinas over the last 15 years, 2 private and 1 run by the state. I've never been asked to show proof of insurance. Hard to believe they would want $100000 liability coverage just to park the boat, maybe they've seen you sail before... just kidding.
In regards to thru hulls I must admit I've been remissed, in the 15 years I've sailed mine hard I've never had the occassion to bother with them other than to repair the knot meter and to disconnect the cockpit drain to install a backing plate and new grundgon for my rudder. Maybe you could enlighten me as to the extensive maintenance the plastic thru hulls you find on most production boats need. Other than replacing a $3 hose clamp now and again what would make it so cost prohibitive?
As for the head if you're in a marina use their facilities. If anchoring out get a portapottie from West Marine for $100. The only servicing that needs is to be emptied overboard t night when on one is around.
Boats only need the basic CG required safety equipment to be legal. Motor vehicles need to pass a yearly safety inspection whether you park it in one spot all year or commute 150 mile to work each day. That means all lights, mirrors, brakes, suspension, glass, exhaust, and in NY you have to also pass an emissions control test, anyone have to replace an oxygen sensor lately?
As for RV's anyone I've ever been on has a propane gas system for heating cooking and usually even the fridge. IF YOU DON'T MAINTAIN YOU PROPANE SUPPLY SYSTEM YOU WIL BLOW UP!!! Oh sorry my cap lock and bold type buttons must have been stuck. I must apoligise, I wouldn't want anyone to think I was some kind of duffas that thinks typing in bold capital letters makes his point more valid.
But as a practical matter you can live in a camper cheaply, however the places that would allow you to squat fro free are likely to be inhabited by a lot of transents, drug addicts, crazy people and the rest of societys dregs. Myself I would feel safer leaving my possessions in a boat in a bay with 30 other derilect boats than in a camper with 30 groups of homeless living under blue tarps.
Hey but what do I know I even have a splice in my anchor line.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by sailingSammy

THE ONLY SERVICING THAT NEEDS IS TO BE EMPTIED OVERBOARD AT NIGHT WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND.

Heh-heh. Well played Sammy. However, you b-capped the wrong part. Here - fixed.

[bubb2]

Joe has it right! The last time I broke my arm, a 2x4 and a roll of duck tape and I was good to go! The last time I had a legal problem, well you know what they say!

A man who is his own LAWYER has a fool for his client.

Regards, Inmate # 578493

[smackdaddy]

Yeah Bubb - then there's the whole brain surgery thing. I've gotten through most of the books and have the butter knife sterilized and prepped and am ready to cut, but I can't quite get a handle on the whole cerebellum thing. Then on top of that seeing everything backwards in the mirror is making it even harder. Left brain is right, right brain is left. I dunno, maybe I should hold off?

[sailhog]

I was wondering if anyone out there with a spare Philadelphia cheese steak sandwich topped with Swiss, onions and peppers would care to "pay it forward" because I'm hungry and I left my wallet at home. If you could also pay forward a couple of condoms and a pack of Tic Tacs, that would be very much appreciated. Some ben wa balls would nice too...

[sailhog]

Okay, I'd like to change my order. Scratch the Philly cheese steak sandwich with the onions, peppers and Swiss, but keep the Tic Tacs, condoms, ben wa balls, and add on top of that a canister of GNC high-protein muscle mix and a gym membership. The Sharper Image has this hair removal system that I'm really interested in, so that would be nice as well.