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  #81  
Old 06-11-2009
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Mokusiga—

Buh-bye... I'd point out that back in post #2, I asked Tiaraswake a series of simple questions, most of which were never answered. I'll quote the post here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Exactly what are you looking for? A free boat??? Help fixing the boat you have?? Just curious, what kind of boat are you, your husband and the toddlers living aboard currently? How did it get into such bad shape—certainly that did not happen overnight? Why did you not address the issue prior to it becoming such an issue, especially given that this boat is also your home??
She never said what she was looking for.

She never asked for help fixing her current boat, which is a far more reasonable request than asking for a free boat.

She never posted photos of the boat in question or the transom or did anything that might help solve her problem.

She never said what kind of boat she, her husband and two toddlers were living on.

She never really addressed how this boat came to be in such bad shape that it is at risk of sinking shortly.

Here are all of her replies:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiarasWake View Post
Let me first say that I am not trying to save a "lifestyle". My family hit hard financial times. Our cars were repossessed, our home foreclosed, etc. We moved so that my husband could start at another job. We cannot afford rent in this area so the cheapest thing is to live aboard. We survive much cheaper than any apartment would ever allow. Living on land would be four or five times more expensive here, at least. Secondly, we bought this boat with the only bit of money we had, because we couldn't afford an apartment. We knew nothing about boats and were told that the boat was in good shape by the previous owner. We believed him, in part because we were living in a tent and we needed a roof over our heads. That is why this issue with the transom exists. We didn't know the boat was going bad, but we needed somewhere to live.
We certainly aren't living an exotic lifestyle, and cannot live any more frugally than we already do, so that is not an option. We do not eat out or go out or anything. We get groceries each week and that is it. Please do not assume that I am just someone who doesn't want to give up some glamorous lifestyle. We live in a space as big as some people's bathrooms. We have lost everything and are only trying to get by.
Nice sob story, but doesn't answer any of the questions, nor give any information regarding the boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiarasWake View Post
We have done plenty of work on this boat ourselves already.We are eager to learn and have had good times fixing things together. We have put some money into the boat and are good about keeping up with what it needs, however, the leaking transom means that in turn, our core is probably wet and would require either the inside or the outside of the boat to be ripped apart for a whole overhaul. Another boat does not mean that it would end up being junk in the long run because we do take care of things. It just so happens that this problem is far too expensive. I realize that people are trying to give good advice as far as moving to land, but these same people don't realize how cheap it is to live on the water. Even with insurance and slip fees, we don't pay much at all/ Rent in this area runs between 1600 and $2000 a month. Slip and insurance and electric costs us only 500 a month. So you can see that an apartment would not be within our reach. Now, before anyone tells me that we should live somewhere cheaper, let me say that there are not a lot of companies in my husband's line of work, so we go where the job is.
Fixing a leaking transom isn't necessarily an expensive repair. I've done it on a couple of boats. Yes, it would require the boat's aft end being taken apart a while..but saying that it is just too expensive to do without saying what boat it is or what else is wrong with it is just more sob story. Note, she doesn't say what her husband's line of work is, just that there aren't many companies that do it... and that they have to "go where the job is". Again, nice sob story, but AFAICT, there hasn't be any real investigation on what the actual problem with the transom is... just her say so, without any elaboration on how she came to the conclusions that it is "too expensive". Also, she says that the core is probably wet—if she had investigated the problem, she should know that it either is wet or it isn't. If it isn't, it may not be that big a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiarasWake View Post
A lot of the work we do for the boat doesn't cost us anything anyways, because my husband does a lot of things himself, as far as zincs go, and other things under the water. Even with maintenance, it is really cheap, and that was what we needed. Owning a house only gaurantees that someday the roof will need replaced, the water heater will go, etc. We have already been there and done those things. Believe me when i say that this is cheaper, unless of course you have a 60 footer, two deckhands and a boat yard to pay every time you need to pull it.
Again, lots of sob story here....but NO SUBSTANTIAL FACTS OF ANY SORT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiarasWake View Post
This whole thing is pretty ridiculous. I never expected anything to really come from the post, but it made me feel better temporarily. I am not going to try to convince people that boat living is cheaper. People are set in their own ways and will believe what they want, but the truth is, Tager knows what i am talking about, and so do the many people that live in this marina. Many of them were forced here because they hit hard times. It doesn't have to be expensive. Sure, it can be, but it doesn't have to be. I would spend more on an engine for a piece of crap RV that I know nothing about either, and i would have nowhere to park it or to get electric hook-ups. We have been living aboard for a year now, and we have learned a lot. The beautiful thing is that people in this atmosphere are friendlier than any in any neighborhood i have ever lived. They treat each other like family. When one person needs something, chances are that you can find someone who will offer to help you out or even barter services. It just so happens that we got a bad boat, so that fix would be expensive, but there is no way we would ever be able to spend nearly two grand a month on an apartment. Our fixes have only ever cost us a couple bucks at a time. Ok, so I am still trying to say that the boat is cheaper, but that wasn't my intention this time. People don't really know how bad things get until it actually happens. When you are sitting beneath the trees in a fabric enclosure with lightning and rain pouring down and your kids looking terrified, you have to change your thinking a bit. When you are in an expensive place, with your family in other states and very few companies to search for work, you have to find a means to survive. That is what we did. We coudn't think too much about years down the road and whether or not our old boat would still be floating or even whether it would be big enough to sleep our kids. We needed to get out of the rain and the boat was our only option. I wish that no one would ever go through what we did, but that is really the only way for people to understand. In the same aspect, no one knows about living aboard until they do it. The people that live here certainly aren't rich. I guess that's all. I'm sure i'll remember something else i wanted to say and have to post again.
AGAIN, mostly sob story, no real facts. Note, that her "friendly people who treat each other like family" obviously aren't taking care of TW or her family all that well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiarasWake View Post
Oh, yeah, and another boat wouldn't end up in the same situation as this. I never said that we couldn't afford to do any maintenance, because we have. Regular maintenance, which we can afford due to cheap living and helpful neighbors, has been done; inexpensively i might add. The problem lies in that we cannot afford a major overhaul to replace the transom and probably the core. Regular maintenance would have avoided this issue if the previous owners would have done their part, therefore backing up the whole "cheaper" issue. They did not though, and the boat was neglected. So, another boat does not mean that it would fall apart because we are neglectful. We live here. We would not let it go, just as we did not let this one go. Our problem exists only because someone wanted to make a buck and leave out the details.
Basically, all this post is saying is "We want a free boat, and all the problems with our current boat are because of the previous owner..." Yeah, right... if they had not let the boat "go", why is the transom leaking and so expensive to fix.... Note, again there are NO DETAILS of any sort.

While Dave's offer back in post #10 was quite generous, AFAICT, TW never replied to it. I'd point out that none of TW's posts contain anything like facts about what kind of boat they live on, or photos of the transom, leading me to believe that the boat does not in fact exist. I've seen way too many people try to take advantage of the goodness of others to not be cynical—I'd be far less cynical if there were more facts and less sob story to TW's posts. But, TW didn't see fit to reply with any substantial facts about her boat, her problem or assist in any way to repair it...aside from asking for a free boat.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #82  
Old 06-11-2009
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I hate good bye posts. They are so flouncy and very 12 year old girlish.

I never tried to beat up TW or two make light of their situation, nor did I necessarily disbelieve their situation. I did however, have a real fear and concern for two toddlers living on what I was told was an unsafe boat. My reasons for recommending to seek a land based lifestyle had every bit as much to do with the safety of these children as economics.

I do agree that there were some posts in poor taste but hey- this is the Internet. If you can't take questioning or the occasional joke that might even be directed at you, its probably not best to post. Double that for posting asking for a free boat while stating how ONLY a new boat will do, there are no other options.
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  #83  
Old 06-11-2009
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Mimsy—

Unfortunately, I'm not even sure the two toddlers even exist at this point in time, or that the "boat with the damaged transom" exists...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #84  
Old 06-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Mimsy—

Unfortunately, I'm not even sure the two toddlers even exist at this point in time, or that the "boat with the damaged transom" exists...
Based on the way TW responded, I am inclined to believe your take on the situation. I've seen and helped families through tough times. I've never seen a mother in a bad situation unwilling to look at any and all options but then, these were fabulous moms who put their kids needs, safety and well being first. I don't know one of these moms who would keep their kids on a sinking boat, look at no other options while waiting for a "miracle" yacht to be given to them.
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  #85  
Old 06-11-2009
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Mimsy—

That was much my take on it too... most mothers I've met and know are unwilling to risk their kids at all... if the boat were in such bad shape, most mothers I know would have either found a way to get their kids off the boat or had it fixed long before it became a risk.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #86  
Old 06-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokusiga View Post
Hey Guys,,, You may have failed to notice, as most of you are caught up in your own little world, but TiarasWake has given up on you all your drama and doesn't respond any more.
To be honest, I would have given up on this when all the abuse started coming in and the whole thing started getting rather weird and surreal.

I am rather dissapointed that you all (well, almost all) decided to use this thread as some sort of pissing contest, when in actual fact the family in question are just trying to survive and were genuinely asking for help.

NCC320 and others have tried to offer decent advice/encouragement. Shame Tiara probably wont read it.

Saildog, smack and a few others are the reason I wont be coming back to such a pathetic website. I only joined out of curiosity, but you lot really need to get a life. Yes there is a lot of good stuff, but the bull5hit on here makes me want to puke.

Why dont you all get a life and actually sail your boats rather than just talk about it.

Thank you and good bye
Mok - sorry to see you go. Seriously. At the end of the day, I agree with you...and was pointing out the same things you just pointed out.

You'll notice that I didn't join this fracas until after she'd already bailed on page 6. When she kept getting lectured even then, I thought it might be appropriate to jump into what has become quite the tar pit and ask the gentle folks herein to give her some air.

You're also right that NCC320 gave her some great advice - advice suited to what she was actually asking. Good on him.

Finally, you'll notice that Sway likes to make fun of the fact that I tend to try to stick up for newbs when I can - especially when they're being jumped by the usual suspects. Well, I've been accused of much worse than that.

Hang around. It'll get better.

Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-11-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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  #87  
Old 06-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
At least I have a boat. .
Dog, your boat looks like three boats ;-)

Last edited by jorgenl; 06-11-2009 at 10:42 AM.
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  #88  
Old 06-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Mimsy—

Unfortunately, I'm not even sure the two toddlers even exist at this point in time, or that the "boat with the damaged transom" exists...
I harboured that suspicion from the start, but was willing to give "her" the benefit of the doubt.

Jim
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  #89  
Old 06-11-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokusiga View Post
Saildog, smack and a few others are the reason I wont be coming back to such a pathetic website.
Suggest you avoid Internet sites altogether, because Sailnet is no worse than many, and a damn sight less hostile than most.

I've had my "issues" with Sailnet, but one thing is for sure: With all its faults, it remains one of the best, if not the best, resources for sailing-related information and help on the 'net.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokusiga View Post
Why dont you all get a life and actually sail your boats rather than just talk about it.
Says the alleged "sailor" posting his own little bit of web drama to... a web forum

N.B.: If you'd spent any time here, you'd know that most members do sail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokusiga View Post
Thank you and good bye
You're welcome and goodbye.

Jim
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  #90  
Old 06-11-2009
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I cannot tell you whether this post is real or not. I will say that the poster is from Maryland. That part does ring true. THat particular part of MD is quite expensive also, rivaling anywhere in the US.

If there is any truth to the post, I sincerely wish her the best in finding a safe and workable refuge for her family - whether that be boat, trailer, apartment, or house.

The internet is also full of opinions. THat cannot be helped. That is part of what makes it great and part of what makes it frustrating. Either way, it does require a level of "thick skin" which a person can either come to deal with or should avoid these places. We try to keep a level of civilty here, but I have seen nothing that needs our editing or moderation. THat does not mean I do or do not agree with the opinions presented.

I for one will say that the post from the OP was moving. It certainly struck me as being genuine... but there is no way to tell. If so, we do have a LOT of posters from MD and I would not doubt that they would help if they could.

My opinions.

- CD
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