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post #41 of 73 Old 03-17-2010
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Originally Posted by blackjenner View Post
It really depends. The most expensive production BMW isn't more expensive than many entry level cars. Most Japanese motorcycles are less expensive than almost any production car to purchase. Most production motorcycles get 40mpg.

So they can be cheaper.
Would really disagree on that. Owned a Suzuki SV650-S and now a GSX-R600 and both are more expensive than a car.

It may get 40mpg to my car's 30, but it's using higher octane. Also you burn through tires much faster and simple things like an oil change are outrageous if you don't do it yourself.

And then there's the speeding tickets

Yeah, you can get a low end bike and have it be cheap, but then you can also buy a cheap Honda, abuse the crap out of it and get 100-150k miles out of it easy.

I'm look at living in a boat costing more than a house too. But I'm still mentally justifying certain costs like, yeah, a new set of sails may be $$$, but how much does a new roof on a house cost? Home water heaters, air conditioners, plumbing going bad, having to re-sod your yard because the housing association thinks it's the wrong type of grass, total home repaint, driveway re-pavement, termites, etc, etc, etc.

And it still won't take you to the Bahamas
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post #42 of 73 Old 03-17-2010
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Originally Posted by LauderBoy View Post
Would really disagree on that. Owned a Suzuki SV650-S and now a GSX-R600 and both are more expensive than a car.

It may get 40mpg to my car's 30, but it's using higher octane. Also you burn through tires much faster and simple things like an oil change are outrageous if you don't do it yourself.

And then there's the speeding tickets

Yeah, you can get a low end bike and have it be cheap, but then you can also buy a cheap Honda, abuse the crap out of it and get 100-150k miles out of it easy.

I'm look at living in a boat costing more than a house too. But I'm still mentally justifying certain costs like, yeah, a new set of sails may be $$$, but how much does a new roof on a house cost? Home water heaters, air conditioners, plumbing going bad, having to re-sod your yard because the housing association thinks it's the wrong type of grass, total home repaint, driveway re-pavement, termites, etc, etc, etc.

And it still won't take you to the Bahamas
I currently own a SV 650 that I bought for $3000.

A new GSXR-600 costs around $8000. (correction $10,000) I just checked.

Standard 600cc bikes are more like 8K

New cars cost about twice as much.

I will admit tires and chains cost to keep up and, a fool on a bike can toast a tire and chain in 3000 miles.

Oh and only the most high performance motorcycles need premium to run. My 1200cc Suzuki Bandit runs fine on regular octane gas.

The speeding tickets are not a function of the motorcycle or the driver.

However, my over three decades of riding (not pulling credentials here -- just letting you know where my opinion comes from), strongly suggest that motorcycles are a very economical alternative to owning a car.

Please see my post above on the Ninja 250, a very capable motorcycle.

I'm not going to get into a debate about edge cases. Anyone can come up with specific examples to argue against a generality. My own example of the Ninja was just that, I will admit.

However, very few new motorcycles approach the purchase cost of a new car. While they usually have higher maintenance costs, over the long run they can still come in cheaper.

In the end, they are simply a different form of transportation and anyone making any sweeping generalized statements about either is comparing apples and oranges and is often trying to make the data fit their opinion.

As for costing of a home vs a boat, we are going through the same thing right now. For us, the boats we are looking at (45' range), with slip, insurance, utilities and $6,000 a year in maintenance plan are less than the load of supporting the 1100 sq/ft condo in the middle of Seattle, so it makes financial sense for us.

Back to the point though...the argument that motorcycles can't be cheaper to purchase, own and maintain than a car is not a valid one. Not in my experience as a motorcyclist, MSF instructor and having worked at motorcycle dealerships over the years.

Last edited by blackjenner; 03-17-2010 at 01:58 PM.
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post #43 of 73 Old 03-17-2010
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A key difference between house living and boat living is, you have a boat.

Living on a house, you need to pay for a boat to sail.
Living on a boat, you have a boat.

If you're going to be paying for a boat anyway, it seems a waste to not live on it. If your house and boat expenses are combined, you can get more boat.
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post #44 of 73 Old 03-17-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailbunnySPU View Post
A key difference between house living and boat living is, you have a boat.

Living on a house, you need to pay for a boat to sail.
Living on a boat, you have a boat.

If you're going to be paying for a boat anyway, it seems a waste to not live on it. If your house and boat expenses are combined, you can get more boat.
I love this answer.

While we are taking money into account, pure money comparisons just don't cut it when can take your home almost anywhere.

Read this book..

The Essentials of Living Aboard a Boat
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post #45 of 73 Old 03-17-2010
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House or boat, if you have a boat you can live on happily and you don't have a house, you have a boat and a home, for the cost of the boat, if you have a house and a boat and live in the house you have a home and a boat two costs.
House costs per year: $3350 + mortgage ---$6300 mortgage( $80K ), $1800 taxes, $350 insure, $1200 electric. I won't add extras like cable and all or heat, house is in Maine
Boat costs per year : $5800+ boat---$ Boat ( $16K ) YCMV , $3800 slip ($9/foot X 35 HHM ) $1100 live aboard fee, $900 electric,
So living on a boat is more then on land if you are not paying a mortgage, and you are not paying a boat note. Now if you live on a moring/or in the hook you can live on a boat cheaper, then again you can live in the woods for next to nothing too.
I would be living on mine but she is 1500 miles away and when I do get her here I can not live aboard year round anywhere near where I work, no winters on morings and no marinias with floats in the winter.
Car or bike, I have a 1998 KLR650 $5000 new and a 2002 Hyundia Accent $8500 new, the bike is cheaper then the car but im Maine you can't use a bike year round.
Car costs per year: $120 tax/tag, $200 insure, $175 tires( 4X every other ) , $240 repairs ( so far $350 timing belt, $350 water pump, $300 brakes, $400 exaust/and brakes and 2 $20 oil changes a year) and 35mpg
Bike costs per year $38 tax/tag, $58 insure, $125 tires ( 1 back every other 1 front every 4 ) $33 chains ( 4 $100 chains in 12 years last one 5 years ago got a chain oiler)$ 25 repairs ($300 used part, fried the wiring and cdi ) and 55mpg
Bikes can be cheaper, but it is not a car.
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post #46 of 73 Old 03-18-2010
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Quote:
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I'm glad you are amused but my 35 years of riding experience tells me it's not a common myth. In many cases (though not all of course) a motorcycle can be much cheaper than a car to purchase, maintain and even insure.

Part of the argument that cars are cheaper is based on servicing them, which many car owners simply don't do.

It depends on what you are comparing.

Compare any car to this.

Kawasaki Ninja 250 (fully capable of freeway speeds, of carrying hard bags and extended rides and touring)
On a different forum I probably would.....

But not here, it's A bit off topic.


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post #47 of 73 Old 03-18-2010
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Here are a couple boats to consider:

Mariner 28, made in New Hampshire (I own one and it is a great boat that you can pick up for around $10,000.)

Islander 28. Friend of mine has cruised his Islander to Florida and back twice now. He lives aboard and is quite comfy.

Check out yachtworld.com and take a look at these boats. They have lots of teak inside and are sturdy boats.

My advise is to stay in the 28-30 range and keep it simple. Find something in good shape. Good diesel. NO SOFT DECKS. Make sure you see the boat out of the water and get a survey after you've narrowed it down.

Good luck and have fun.
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post #48 of 73 Old 03-18-2010
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On a different forum I probably would.....

But not here, it's A bit off topic.
Good point.

And on a different forum I'd likely engage you on it. The only relevance to this thread is an encouragement to look at facts and data to make decisions and ot be careful in engaging in apples and oranges comparisons or using edge cases as general examples.

"There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats." -- Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole)

1980 Baba 35 Pilot House Cutter - Brigadoon


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post #49 of 73 Old 04-23-2010 Thread Starter
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Hey guys/gals i have been doing some research and defiantly will be staying in the 28-30 ft range. I have looked at many wet slips and they are all about the same around here which really is not to bad at about 325 on average and 20 minimum for electric. I have not yet decided which boat to get, looking at catalina, person, s2 yachts and thats about it. I have not found any saiboat in any good condition for 10k around here but for about 15-25k you can find something very nice.
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post #50 of 73 Old 04-24-2010
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Solman, go for it (if your friends are anything like mine then they can't wait for the big move either!) I am just graduating from UF and am preparing to launch my 1964 32' Islander to live aboard out of St. Augustine. The size range you are talking about is perfect, big enough for some good cruising, yet small enough not to break the bank every time you go out!

My boat has been an 8 year culmination that began with my dad... Its a dream I've been working towards for some time. The advice given in the threads seem very complete.

One of many additional aspects that you may want hunt around for is insurance. Marina insurance requirements vary, for instance the one I will be tied up at is $1,000,000 I think. Also, the word liveaboard is considered a liability by some companies, most of the people I talk to recommend calling yourself a cruiser.

My experience, since Francis and Jeanne, has been that insurance is incredibly difficult to find and worth shopping around considerably.

I'm a fan of the classic plastic boats, mine may be slower, but definitely looks nice!

Fair winds and following seas!

-Tom
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