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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2010
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I tend to agree with you, but I think better deals are on the horizon. I rent now, but I own one house that's paid for and I rent out. I'm thinking of buying another house, but I know I'll probably never get this one paid off. It will help me on my taxes as a write off though, and in time I'll gain some equity...but it's going to take awhile this time around. As long as I get the house for the right price, and get a good mortgage, I can always rent this house out in the future and make some more free money. The problem that some people have with renting and wasting their money never bothered me, but at the end of the year when it's tax time I sure wished I had some write offs. Paying the government plenty of taxes, bothers me more than renting.

I have an older boat that I don't live on, but I sure would like to...but not my wife. The idea of buying a new boat is a loser financially, but a well maintained older boat makes sense. Having an affordable house pretty much already fixed up makes the most sense, because that will leave you money for a pretty much fixed up older boat. You can live part time in the house, and part time in the boat. When you get ready to cut the lines to land, sell your land stuff or put it in storage, and rent the house out...you'll like the extra income. If you get tired of living on the boat, then you'll have a place to come back home to. Of course one main advantage of renting is, you can usually afford to rent where you want to live...not always so with owning a house unless you're pretty well off.

When it comes to owning a house, location is the most important thing. If own a house somewhere where appreciation does not rise very much, then you would be better off investing in a house in a better appreciating area...which may not be where you are now. Real estate is good to invest in, but it does have it down times like any other investment...so timing is just as important in real estate. If I had to do things over again, I'd like to have at least five paid off houses (or partially paid off), each paying me some monthly income. If I was making enough money from the rentals, I'd hire a property management company to manage them and send me my check...but that's just me. At your age and with what's going on in the market right now, you do have some time to put off real estate investing...but I wouldn't wait more than a two or three years.

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Originally Posted by utchuckd View Post
To be the contrarian, I think real estate is as good an investment as anything else. And right now is quite possibly the absolute best time in any of our lives we'll ever see to buy it. One of the biggest housing price corrections in history, and rates in the 4% range? It's a buyer's dream market.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingmum View Post
But when folks calculate the profit of selling a home, they never count all the costs, they forget the carrying costs, the interest costs of mortgage.. etc. etc. etc.....
This tends to be like when people gamble and tell you they won $500. They tend to forget to tell you they lost $600 doing the same thing the week before.
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Old 05-16-2010
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Well, I called Ko'olina Marina in Hawaii. I am going to get on their waiting list for a liveaboard slip so we'll see how that goes. I think I am going to live in the transient slips in the Ala Wai (Waikiki) for 6 months and make the move to Ko'olina when my number comes up on the waiting list.

As for the house... I am going to hold off on making that decision until we move stateside (in about 3 years). In the mean time we are going to take the advice of the majority here and make our lives what we want them to be without regard to "the program".
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Old 05-16-2010
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I'm sure you must have checked this out, but I thought the waiting lists for a slip in Hawaii were years long. I don't think you can stay in a transient slip that long. If the waiting lists are as long as I think they are, one work around would be to buy a boat with a slip.

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Originally Posted by creedence623 View Post
Well, I called Ko'olina Marina in Hawaii. I am going to get on their waiting list for a liveaboard slip so we'll see how that goes. I think I am going to live in the transient slips in the Ala Wai (Waikiki) for 6 months and make the move to Ko'olina when my number comes up on the waiting list.

As for the house... I am going to hold off on making that decision until we move stateside (in about 3 years). In the mean time we are going to take the advice of the majority here and make our lives what we want them to be without regard to "the program".
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Old 05-16-2010
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You can stay in the transient slips for up to 180 days. The trick here is to just show up at the marina office one day. If you call ahead they will tell you they are full (although the transient slips are rarely at capacity). The waiting lists for the public marinas are in the neighborhood of about 10 years, but if you go with a private marina (read: more expensive) the wait time is cut down dramatically. As of the other day, Ko'Olina is about 1 year, Rainbow Marina in Pearl Harbor (for DoD folks only) is about 2 years. Kehe Marina is the only one on the island that doesn't usually have a wait list, but you have to live under the departure end of one of the runways at Honolulu Int'l Airport.
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  #26  
Old 05-16-2010
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"the program" is only in your own mind. Who cares what the 20something sheep are doing? Are you really worried about getting behind the establishment curve or missing out on some great suburban opportunity?

You know what the number one cause of midlife crises is? Following "the plan" in your 20s, and waking up one morning and realizing just how much life you missed out on.

Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it NOW!
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2010
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you can pay for and buy a house or land,but you cannot "own" a house or land.
If you think you own your house or land. Try not paying your taxes and you'll soon find out you have been renting.
The same is not true for a sailing vessel. which ,of course , can become mobile quite faster than a house. If the neighborhood goes downhill, cast off.
If the political regime gets ugly,cast off. if your tired of the scenery, well... you get the picture.
As far as the investment argument. I purchased the boat for me, not the next guy.
boats do in fact sink (unfortunately). Ever witness a house fire ? earthquake,tornado,sunami. how about a major miltary conflict ? try to insure against that one !
Life can get pretty ugly for the relatively short time we each get to spend at it.
My only major current regret is that I' wasted so much of it listening to other's ,wasting their lives, telling me I was nuts for wanting to live mine.

Live the Dash, in the end it's all you'll end up with.
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  #28  
Old 05-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creedence623 View Post
As for the house... I am going to hold off on making that decision until we move stateside (in about 3 years). In the mean time we are going to take the advice of the majority here and make our lives what we want them to be without regard to "the program".
Given this info, buying a house makes even less sense: why would you want an investment that isn't guaranteed to do better than anything else, that's hard to liquidate on your schedule, and then factor in closing costs at both sides??? And don't believe the "you need a tax deduction" hype: even if you're in the top income bracket, you get back what, a third of the money you spent on interest? The other 2/3 went to the bank and made THEM money, not you. If you're only going to be in a location for 3 years you're very early in the mortgage; look at the amortization schedule and you'll realize almost NONE of the money you spent on payments goes against principal. That means that you won't have accumulated any savings in the house. I still believe that the only way to make money on a house (greater than the rate of inflation long-term) is to be extremely lucky with market timing, or to invest a lot of sweat equity. This from someone who has bought and sold about a dozen houses, moving whereever Uncle Sam sent us (and that meant we had the added bonus of all our closing costs being covered as part of the relocation package) and owning a kitchen-bath remodel business so we had the inside track on the sweat-equity "investments." Now living on the boat for the past 8 years and we have far far more disposable income than we ever did in the house. Also more free time to play instead of mowing the lawn and cleaning leaves out of the gutters.

That you're asking the question may be it's own answer. Live on the boat, enjoy the boat! Buy the house ONLY when there's no question in your mind that you really, really, want to own a house because it suits your lifestyle at the time...but not as an investment, not because it's the thing you "should" be doing now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
"the program" is only in your own mind. Who cares what the 20something sheep are doing? Are you really worried about getting behind the establishment curve or missing out on some great suburban opportunity?

You know what the number one cause of midlife crises is? Following "the plan" in your 20s, and waking up one morning and realizing just how much life you missed out on.

Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it NOW!
Succinct, elegant, articulate ... I gave you a rep point for this.
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  #30  
Old 05-19-2010
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While I can understand and agree with your point of view, I'll have to disagree with the view that the right piece of real estate is not a good investment. You're quite correct that market timing is very important in all investments, that is why I earlier suggested to not wait more that 2 or 3 years in real estate. I could be wrong since I don't own a crystal ball, but I believe this market recovery is going to take awhile this time around, especially considering what is now going on in Europe. The right real estate is a good investment bought at the right time for the right price, and even though you never completely own the property as you point out, taxes and repairs/improvements should be considered as a cost of doing business. I don't think you have to be lucky with market timing in real estate, if you spend some time understanding what is going on in that market. Historically real estate goes through boom and bust periods, with the boom almost always longer than the bust. Booms generally run for about 7 to 10 years, and busts generally last a 2 or 3 years. One key indicator to be watching is what percentage of the population can afford real estate, or how affordable is real estate to the population. If the affordability starts decreasing, then that is a tip off that the market is reaching for the top. Saying that, I think this time around the bust is going to break the norm, and appreciation is going to be slow for some years to come...but this can be a good thing. The upside to slow appreciation is it makes real estate ownership more affordable to the masses, and a good time to get into real estate before the market starts to take off again. Notice that I talk about real estate investing as an investment, not in the vein of making a home. Turning the investment into a home that you own forever will not make you any money, except if it can be rented out at a profit when not being used.

I'm completely on board with your plan to be a live aboard, but I see nothing wrong with investing at the right time in the right vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eryka View Post
Given this info, buying a house makes even less sense: why would you want an investment that isn't guaranteed to do better than anything else, that's hard to liquidate on your schedule, and then factor in closing costs at both sides??? And don't believe the "you need a tax deduction" hype: even if you're in the top income bracket, you get back what, a third of the money you spent on interest? The other 2/3 went to the bank and made THEM money, not you. If you're only going to be in a location for 3 years you're very early in the mortgage; look at the amortization schedule and you'll realize almost NONE of the money you spent on payments goes against principal. That means that you won't have accumulated any savings in the house. I still believe that the only way to make money on a house (greater than the rate of inflation long-term) is to be extremely lucky with market timing, or to invest a lot of sweat equity. This from someone who has bought and sold about a dozen houses, moving whereever Uncle Sam sent us (and that meant we had the added bonus of all our closing costs being covered as part of the relocation package) and owning a kitchen-bath remodel business so we had the inside track on the sweat-equity "investments." Now living on the boat for the past 8 years and we have far far more disposable income than we ever did in the house. Also more free time to play instead of mowing the lawn and cleaning leaves out of the gutters.

That you're asking the question may be it's own answer. Live on the boat, enjoy the boat! Buy the house ONLY when there's no question in your mind that you really, really, want to own a house because it suits your lifestyle at the time...but not as an investment, not because it's the thing you "should" be doing now.
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