Morgan 41 in freezing water - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 10-31-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
evasion is on a distinguished road
I understand the bubbler is bringing warmer water to surface but it's not also keeping water moving, preventing from freezing?

It's not a question of $$$, I would like to keep the boat close to my house, keep her longer in the water (yard are lifting boat early and putting them back late in spring) and tired to have to move/remove mast with boom truck (there is a power line to acces the yard)

+ there is a rapid waters (don't know how to call them in english) so I think water is freezing less deeply with below water current where I project to leave to boat.

Shacleton is old story, I saw a 41 from my eyes in deep freeze last winter: no damage, nothing...some aluminium ans steel boat can stay in freezing water, why not a heavily and thick Morgan 41 hull? I think that if something happen, it will lift the boat with the flat shape of the hull, the morgan I saw did not seem to have moved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 11-01-2010
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,617
Thanks: 4
Thanked 93 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
Water with a lot of current (rapidly moving waters) will not freeze as readily as still water.
Good luck however you proceed.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 11-01-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Isalnd
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
CatalinaRob is on a distinguished road
I do not think its at all good for a boat to be locked in 3-4 feet of ice. However, I believe that the damage comes when the ice starts to move away as it breaks-up/thaws. Locked in ice is not good for the boat but will most likely not cause the real damage (unless seacocks freeze and burst). Docks and poles typically get damaged when the ice is pulled away. Now every situation is going to be different here so I am commenting based off general experience.

I use an ice-eater for my 30 footer in a salt-water creek in NY. Low-low tide the keel is at rest on very soft mud at my dock (~4 feet directly under the boat and maybe 6 foot several more feet away from the dock). The ice-eater works fine and no ice ever develops under these circumstances. It could be that its angled in a way to pull water from the center of the creek where its deeper and slightly warmer but again, no ice forms around my boat.

Every situation is going to be different but the above is my experience in cold-cold 20 degree winters.

- Rob
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 11-01-2010
MC1 MC1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lake Ontario
Posts: 277
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MC1 is on a distinguished road
No way I would let my fiberglass "significant investment" get locked in ice if I could prevent it. I've read of steel boats wintering-in this way much further north, but I think it's too risky with fiberglass. Our marina in Lake Ontario uses bubblers in a few places (to protect underwater electrical conduits coming up to the dock) to good affect with 6 - 8 foot water depths. Keeping the water moving appears to be the crucial thing. On a really really cold night, a thin surface coat of ice might still form, but each time I looked anyway, the bubblers had it broken up by noon. Even with bubblers, I'd still be nervous they'd stop (e.g., power loss) when I wasn't able to check on them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 11-01-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
evasion is on a distinguished road
there is no tide where the boat will be and it's not salt water.

when ice thaws, it is expending then causing breakage?

For ice-build up (accumulation of ice), I noticed they were next to the shore, not at 100 feet of it.

Howewer I think I will get some kind of device the prevent ice, at least the first year and make some tests without the boat in the water.

Rob, I understand ice-eater is working for you in 4 feet of water. Is a ice-eater same thingh as a bubbler or it's different type?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 11-01-2010
Memopad's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Marquette, MI
Posts: 54
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Memopad is on a distinguished road
Last winter I watched the ice on lake superior drag a 1,000lb block of concrete about 1/4mile as the ice moved. Someone didn't sink their mooring, it froze in the ice and got drug. Kind of illustrates the power of what you're dealing with... and that was in a relatively protected harbour.
__________________
1978 Ranger 28 and a fleet of Mini 12's.
Ropes and rigging and splicing, oh my!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 11-01-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 522
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 6
tomandchris is on a distinguished road
If you are in a river that does not freeze more than a few inches you will probably be fine. Your description on the boat you saw in 3-4 foot of ice said that it was pulled out in January. If the hull does not get crushed in that much ice I can assure you that the ice will move in the Spring, especially if there is a current. Windage alone will move ice which will then do major damage to anything in its way. I have seen steel boat lifts turned into pretzels by spring ice.

Good luck
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 11-01-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
evasion is on a distinguished road
This is a good point, the moving ice in the spring can be a problem for sure.

But I watched ice movement last year on the bassin and there was next to none.

Ice only melt in place or so with some weak movements that won't hurt the hull I'm sure (current is only underwater and I think there is one because a stream in line with the rapid de-ice faster every year.

The problem can be if I get strong winds from north (rare but it can happen), and all the ice from about 1 miles of the bassin go toward my boat that will be close to shore (at anchor on the south part of the bassin)


There must me a way the prevent ice from touching the hull like suspend pieces of 2x6 of wood next to fenders aroung the boat ?

Some water front home owners leave their docks in the water without problem everyyear at this place, maybe they were lucky...

keep giving me your advices :-)

Last edited by evasion; 11-01-2010 at 09:48 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 11-01-2010
MC1 MC1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lake Ontario
Posts: 277
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MC1 is on a distinguished road
If the boat is insured, you may want to check with your insurance company beforehand to confirm the boat would be covered if it became locked in ice. Insurance companies usually frown upon owners knowingly leaving insured property at significant risk. In the event of a loss, use of the bubblers might be important to show you made a reasonable effort to protect the boat from damage. If self-insuring . . . one would have to be a brave soul indeed to let a fiberglass boat become engulfed in that much ice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 11-02-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
evasion is on a distinguished road
insurance is certainly a concern your right, but I can assume the risk myself.

Ice is less present year to year, a friend of mine just bought a fiberglass amor 40 that made succesfully the north west passage last year and he is not the only one that made it in a plastic boat.

Sail-World.com : North West Passage Ahoy - seven yachts and counting...

Maybe I should change my question: what are the conditions the keep a plastic boat in the winter in Canada? A lot of people did it or doing it right now, I won't be the first, just want to know how to make it the right way.

So what I need? Bubblers, 360 degrees protection (I guest it's not all boat winterizing in the water that as that protection), heating inside the boat, 2x4 around the boat ???

I won't be liveaboard, my house is 2 minutes from the boat so I can keep an eye on it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Show us some sun. Were freezing! LindsayHerforth Introduce Yourself 8 02-25-2009 12:24 AM
Freezing temps tonight... should I panic ?? scottbr General Discussion (sailing related) 7 10-22-2008 07:22 AM
A/C freezing up wfahey Gear & Maintenance 10 04-14-2008 11:20 AM
freezing point of kerosene? e31 Gear & Maintenance 6 11-12-2003 06:07 AM
Freezing Scuppers Quickstep192 Gear & Maintenance 3 04-02-2001 03:56 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:12 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.