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-   -   Pitfalls of trading up? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/living-aboard/87260-pitfalls-trading-up.html)

shadowraiths 05-10-2012 07:30 PM

Pitfalls of trading up?
 
Am not planning to trade up. Yet. Or maybe, ever. My main reason, if I did, would be to get a boat that is equipped for blue water cruising. And, since I still need to actually learn to sail, specifically, single handed sailing, this proposition is some distance in the future.

That said, I am curious what people do when they go from a smaller boat to a larger one, wrt, for example, slips? Specifically, those who live on their boats? Do you end up having to pay two slip fees until the older boat sells? With this market, I know owners who've had their boats up for sale for 2 years. I have seen some who go with a broker, who then puts the boat in their own slips, but if/when I trade up, I'm pretty sure that my boat is to small for a broker to be interested.

All feed back is welcomed/appreciated.

Cruisingdad 05-10-2012 07:43 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
Let's see...

Catalina 250, then traded up to 320, then traded up to 380, then traded up to 400.... now looking for my next baby, but gave up because Nordhavn won't take my C400 on trade!!! What't the matter with them!? HEHE!

Hey, listen, trading up is great. I always bought new too. My salesman loves me. He told me so. Many times. I even get Christmas cards (new Catalina 445 flyer attached inside).

My suggestion, don't ever get the right boat the first time. You will lose a good friend. You must keep trading up.

Brian

creedence623 05-10-2012 08:16 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
I'm all about trading up, in fact every boat purchase I've made yet has been aimed at going either newer or larger, but I strongly recommend against upgrading until your current boat has sold.

I bought my first 'large' sailboat while waiting for my 28' powerboat to sell, and carried two slips, two insurance policies, etc until the power boat sold. I will never put myself in that position again. I lucked out, and the power boat sold after a reasonable amount of time on the market for my asking price (this was in 2005- pre economic meltdown), BUT owning two boats is a huge liability, and I was just one equipment breakage on either boat away from financial disaster. Any time the thought of a newer/larger boat began to get traction since that experience, I listed my boat for sale and began seriously shopping/contacting brokers only after it was under contract.

It doesn't cost anything to have a boat listed, and you can still sail it/enjoy it while its on the market. If fact, I find your boat is better off if you continue to use and maintain it while it is on the market. So many people wait until they are done using the boat to list them and they end up stagnating on the market decaying from non-use. So far that method has worked out well for me.


p.s. Craigslist or sailboatlistings.com for smaller boats. Both are free, and I've had great luck with both.

Faster 05-10-2012 08:30 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
Never been in the 'always buy new' set.. but until the last change did go up in size. The 'downsize' attempt was much more difficult. Going from 28 to 40 feet 20 years ago was awesome.. awe-inspiring maybe even... Trying to go back to 30 feet after that proved impossible, we ended up (happy) with 35 feet.

Depending on the moorage market situation moving up can be a real challenge on that front.

What I REALLY RECOMMEND AGAINST is buying one before selling the first. Owning two boats is a pain, costly and invariably the one for sale falls into neglect and disuse and therefore 'shows' poorly. BTDT, and don't plan to do it again. Occasionally a 'smokin' deal' shows up to tempt you, though,......

shadowraiths 05-10-2012 08:50 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
Yeah, I was thinking, sell first, then buy. My concern is being caught between boats, with no boat. Esp since I live on mine. I def don't want to get into another boat out of desperation. So, timing and availability would be key. Just not sure how I would juggle something like that...

brokesailor 05-10-2012 08:58 PM

Pitfalls of trading up?
 
I took a chance and bought my cruising dream boat before I had sold my current boat. I got lucky- It sold a month later!
Only regret is now I am completely overwhelmed with my "new" boat. So many systems and stuff breaking down while I am trying to get a feel for the boat-as compared to my Hunter 36 that was so simple and new. Oh well. Learning curve is very steep.

LauderBoy 05-14-2012 01:12 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
Good thread to see, especially with people really recommending selling your current boat first. I'm on a Pearson 323 which is an amazing boat for me for the next several years, but wouldn't mind trading up to a Tayana 37 for blue water cruising once I've done the Bahamas a couple times. My current boat is perfect for that area.

My main worry with selling the current boat first would be that I'm living aboard it and would worry that it might have that messy lived in state. But I guess you can always just be real disciplined about keeping it clean for showing and move a lot of your clutter out.

Also there'd be some things like my kayak, kayak racks and wifi system I'd want to take with me since I'll want them on the new boat and the resale value on them is nil.

What I'm finding really hard is keeping from upgrading my current boat more. Trying to balance new systems/comfort items for the current boat(I'll be in for several years yet) vs knowing that every dollar sunk into her won't be a dollar out on the sale is a tricky balance.

Jetexas 05-14-2012 01:28 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
I've had my Starwind 27 for three years now. Reasons I'm looking at trading up:
- I want five or six people to be able to sit in the cockpit without being cramped and knocking knees with each other, climb over each other to work the lines, etc.
- The galley sink is recessed under the cockpit, and you literally have your face pressed against the cabin wall when you're trying to wash dishes.
- I want a built-in AC system, so I can stop carrying a window unit on and off the boat two or three times every weekend.
- I want some storage and bigger gas and water tanks.

The pitfalls to these things?

MONEY!

Higher slip fees.
Higher maintenance costs.

shadowraiths 05-14-2012 01:46 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LauderBoy (Post 871032)
What I'm finding really hard is keeping from upgrading my current boat more. Trying to balance new systems/comfort items for the current boat(I'll be in for several years yet) vs knowing that every dollar sunk into her won't be a dollar out on the sale is a tricky balance.

This is exactly my dilemma. I am trying to avoid spending a whole lot on upgrades, in that I do suspect I'll want to trade up in the next couple of years. At the same point in time, I am considering the tradeoffs.

For example, larger boat equals higher cost.

Primarily due to more equipment to maintain (i.e., inboard motor, head, etc). While my boat is (obviously) not maintenance free, it is extremely low maintenance. If my outboard motor goes, I replace that for a couple thousand, whereas if I had to replace an inboard, that would run in the ten to twenty thousand range. Moreover, besides higher bottom cleaning costs, there's cost of replacing zincs, packing the shaft, keeping the bilge as "oil and fume free" as possible as well as additional safety measures such as CO2 detectors, etc. Then, there's the head and dealing with pump-outs. Which would mean motoring over to the pump out station or hiring someone to pump her out at her slip. There is also maintaining and managing whatever else the boat is equipped with. And of course, the question of whether I'd actually be able to single hand a 30 footer. Which would, of course, require the running rigging to be run aft, auto helm, that sort of thing.

While the above are neither deal breakers or exhaustive, imo, they inform the sort of increased budget I would want to prepare for. Or, for that matter, whether I would want that increased budget. As it is now, while I try to live frugally, I also live quite comfortably.

There is also the bit wrt what I might want, out the gate, so to speak. For example, roller furling, single handed running rigging, dodger, fridge, head, etc. My guess is, the closer to my specifications, the higher the asking value. Otoh, in today's boat market, boats are still going for almost dirt cheap.

Btw, wrt slip fees. They'd be the same, as I'm already in a 32' slip, and do not plan to go over 30'. So, that's really a non-issue for me.

DRFerron 05-14-2012 02:14 PM

Re: Pitfalls of trading up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowraiths (Post 871047)
This is exactly my dilemma. I am trying to avoid spending a whole lot on upgrades, in that I do suspect I'll want to trade up in the next couple of years.

I get your point about upgrades. In your position I'd upgrade items that make your sailing and living on the boat more comfortable/easier/enjoyable now. It's your home. Anything can happen in a few years and you may decide on a different path altogether. Upgrades won't increase the value of the boat when you decide to sell, but as a buyer, it says to me that you took care of the boat and didn't neglect it. I'd choose that boat over one with absolutely no improvements since it was built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowraiths (Post 871047)
For example, larger boat equals higher cost.

Primarily due to more equipment to maintain (i.e., inboard motor, head, etc). While my boat is (obviously) not maintenance free, it is extremely low maintenance. If my outboard motor goes, I replace that for a couple thousand, whereas if I had to replace an inboard, that would run in the ten to twenty thousand range. Moreover, besides higher bottom cleaning costs, there's cost of replacing zincs, packing the shaft, keeping the bilge as "oil and fume free" as possible as well as additional safety measures such as CO2 detectors, etc. Then, there's the head and dealing with pump-outs. Which would mean motoring over to the pump out station or hiring someone to pump her out at her slip.

Learn how to DIY. Diesel repair and head repair are probably not beyond your capabilities (if I am reading you correctly from hanging out in the chat). That'll save you money. If you list all of the maintenance items that a boat requires, probably 90% can be DIY if you lean that way.

As for pump out, at least in the Chesapeake the cost is minimal ($5/per, usually free if you fill up with fuel at the same time) and unless you're regularly creating enough poop to sink the boat, it'll barely be a smudge on your budget spreadsheet.


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