Opposition to liveaboards - Page 12 - SailNet Community
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post #111 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"I think I made my point very clear.."
You did, but think about what you said. Your problem is with TENANTS not with liveaboards.
Not trying to cause an argument here but arnt they the same.. If a tenant moves onto my dock with his boat, and he lives aboard, he is infact a liveaboard on his boat and renting a space on my dock?
he is a liveaboard but he is also a tenant..
Im not renting the boat to him, just the space to put his boat..

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post #112 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

In BC ,those who put out moorings have no legal rights to them. I simply pick up any mooring I find, give her a good shot of reverse, and if it holds, use it. If no one gives me any problem , I feel a bit of an obligation to clean a bit of the growth off it, and,if I plan to use it again, I put some reflector tape on it, so I can find it easily at night, thus leaving it in better condition than I found it in.

If the owner tries to hassle me, I tell him to get lost ,and ignore him.
You can tell when it was last used, by the amount of growth on it, especially the pickup line

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post #113 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

"In BC ,those who put out moorings have no legal rights to them."
How very curious, and contrary to our common British common-law heritage. Here in the US if you "find" something that belongs to someone else, perhaps a tent that has been left pitched in the woods, it still belongs to the original owner and if you don't get out when he asks you, you've escalated the class of trespassing charge. If you pick it up and say "I found it, finder's keepers" that doesn't apply either. Over a certain low dollar value, there's laws about that too.

Methinks the Mounties might disagree with you, Brett. Along with some other folks with official mandates.
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post #114 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

The seabed is public property. Fisheries have told me they dont give out water leases for private moorings, period. Thus their moorings are on property we all own and they have no legal right to exclude us nor claim ownership of what is a public space by putting a mooring on it.
A cruising lawyer has told me they have no legal right to exclude anyone from a mooring .

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post #115 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Brett, you are dissembling rather than replying on point.

What the seabed may or may not be, has no bearing on the mooring you have picked up. The mooring is chattel goods and private property. It is not real estate nor is it public property, any more than your boat is public property because your boat is located on the public waters.

If the mooring was placed illegally, then of course you are equally in violation of the laws for using it, since you claim any use of the mooring is illegal.

"A cruising lawyer has told me they have no legal right to exclude anyone from a mooring ." That's wondefully vague. Who they? They who? No one has a legal right to exclude you from using an illegal mooring? Including the folks who say that by law a mooring can't be placed where you're using it?
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post #116 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

No one has the right to exclude you from using an anchorage by installing a mooring buoy in it. Thus you have every right to do whatever it takes to use the anchorage, including using the mooring buoy, if that is your choice. You are not obligated to remove a bouy in order to use the public anchorage.
Thank god I live in Canada, where things are not as legally, childishly nitpicky, as they are in the US.

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post #117 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The seabed is public property. Fisheries have told me they dont give out water leases for private moorings, period. Thus their moorings are on property we all own and they have no legal right to exclude us nor claim ownership of what is a public space by putting a mooring on it.
A cruising lawyer has told me they have no legal right to exclude anyone from a mooring .
Brent, using your logic here, if you leave your boat anchored out and dingy into shore, anyone can come up and get on your boat and use is as they see fit. As you have on legal right to exclude claim to what is a public space by putting your boat on it. Perhaps not take it from the location, but use it and tell the owner (you) to stuff it.

A bigger issue for me is if it has lots of growth on it how do you have any confidence in it's ability to hold your boat? I am sure your steel boat is not too light weight, and if the mooring is designed to hold a laser or some other small boat. I would think you would just make one for $2.50 out of scrap steel and drop it and use it.

I like your spirit most of the time, but I think you are just plain wrong here, and trusting some one else's engineering to hold your boat too boot.
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post #118 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Minne, there's a difference between owning your land free and simple, and being subject to an HOA or condo association. Yes, I do know people who were given hundred dollars fines for washing their car. Or parking next to their kitchen to unload groceries. Or, heaven forbid, putting up a clothesline.

And don't even think of parking nose-out (safer, proven by statistics) instead of nose-in, when that's also required.

I'd never buy into one of those heavy-restricted deed arrangements, but they are far and wide the most popular thing in the country and in some places, you'd be hard pressed to find "just a plain title" available anymore.

You buy into one of these "communities" and you see your neighbor washing his car...No, it is no surprise, but then you call the HOA and report it. As you're expected to do.

Nice way to live, huh? Keeps the riff-raff like you and me out, too.
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Quite a broad brush you are painting with here

We downsized from a house we owned all the land to a townhouse ( 2400sq Fft) where the land is part of a larger community property. We have an HOA which is ELECTED. They take care of the grounds, snow removal, community pool, clubhouse with workout center, all the things I gladly wanted to give up so I had more time to sail or do other things. There is not Gestapo HOA here. No one fines people for washing cars, pull;ing them in wrong etc. Yes all of front doors are painted the same....big deal. No one forces anyone to buy here, just like no one forces anyone to become a memeber of our sailing club, but if you do want to you do have to conform to the rules. And yes maybe it is the reason it is a good investment as our property value continue to rise in the community cause we keep the rift raft out. We have that right. You dont have to live here if you dont want.

you always have the right to live where you want.


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post #119 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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....Thank god I live in Canada, where things are not as legally, childishly nitpicky, as they are in the US.
How in the world does this further your argument that you can use whatever mooring in Canada that you please?

Ironically, you are arguing that Canada is "legally" enough to have the law you claim, which either disallows one to place a private mooring or allows you to use it.


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post #120 of 273 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

I have a couple of moorings around the Key's. Sometimes I find a boat on one and I ask them how long they are staying, "why" they ask and I tell them that the ground tackle is mine, I understand I have no right to ask them to leave and I tell them what it is so they know what they are on and usually they say they are only spending the night or a day or two and I say "cool.". and in a day or two they are usually gone. If they look like they are fixing to home stead, I tell them I am retreaving my gear so they may want to drop an anchor. They usually leave soon after that. As for growth, My boat is on a home made mooring and once a month I clean the line. it's amazing the beard it grows, but it's never effected the holding strength.

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