Opposition to liveaboards - Page 13 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree177Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #121  
Old 10-22-2012
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,879
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 98 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Brent-
Oh, so we're changing the argument again, now you are claiming a mooring is obstructing an entire anchorage so you can't ANCHOR there?

I'm lucky, I live in a place where an "obstruction to navigation" can and will be cleared, and if the owner is found, he'll pay for the privilege of having it cleared.

Chef-
"cause we keep the rift raft out. We have that right." Yes you do. And having seen the way "group minds" often operate, I hope you have an exceptional group. Stepford Wives, perhaps. (G)
In theory an HOA is a wonderful thing. As long as everyone has bought in with eyes wide open and marches to the same drummer, wonderful thing. And I still wouldn't buy into one, because if I decided to rip up the front lawn and plant wildflowers in order to create a bird sanctuary, I wouldn't want to argue about why my grass wasn't 1.4" tall. Then someone changes a rule and the majority says, no, it should be 1.6" tall...Crowdsourcing may work for some things, for some times, but as the crowd changes or even ages...that's a lot of shackles to have on your ankles. I don't say they are ALL bad, but Stepford Wives were highly endorsed too. Not my kettle of tea, wouldn't want to sign into a contract knowing the neighbors could all be replaced, one at a time, and then one day, shazaam, the entire board is certifiable. Glad you've got one that's superior.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #122  
Old 10-22-2012
Dean101's Avatar
Life is a wild ride!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 403
Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Dean101 is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyonR3 View Post
I'm part of a small group that owns 3 homes here in the California Delta.. two of those homes have their own docks and Liveaboards are strictly forbidden.. And we live on our boat.. we do allow friends to visit with their boat but only for a max of two weeks..
we've found that anytime a liveaboard is allowed, we have issues we dont want to deal with..
one major issue is the build up of items on the dock, from dock boxes to bicycles and if not left at the dock, are at the enterance to the dock..
and people, its not as much the people that live there but the people that visit and those they bring with them.
A year or so ago, we had leased out the house to one couple and the dock to another..
they have a nice boat, clean, respectable, and had insurance.. shortly after they moved in, their little chairs and a table appeared on the dock, bicycles, and a dock box.. then you would see a large folding table on the dock with his tools out when he was working on the boat. and then I stopped in one dfay, he had his car up on jackstands and was working under it.. when I asked him what he was doing, he said he was replacing the starter..
and he go pissed off when I brought it to his attention that he wasnt to do that there..
and further upset when I asked him to clear the docks of his stuff..
now people ask me why I dont allow liveaboards...
Its because your boat is your home, and everything you would be doing in and around your home, you are now doing in and around your boat.. from working on your car to storing you bikes..
and again we live on our boat,
the fact is, I would not rent our dock to someone like myself.. next to my steps are an old battery I need to get rid of, two propane tanks, and a powerwasher.. and my bicycles.. theses are things I wouldnt allow On my own dock..
and I think the biggest issue... I dont even want to confront anyone about the crap left on the dock..
so at the home we own, we've found it easier to lease the dock to someone who only visits the dock on weekends.. and they know that if anything is on the docks over the weekend, its cleaned up on sunday when they leave..
Hi Randy. Your situation is a little unique in my opinion since it sounds like you are a private owner who rents or leases your docks. It seems that in your case, there is no opportunity for word of mouth, peer pressure, or even an opportunity to "do as the Romans do". If the person leasing your dock is the only occupant, in my experience anyway, that person will push the limits until they find the boundary so to speak. In a marina setting, at least from my limited experience, each slip occupant is surrounded by many other occupants. Each signs a paper stating that they received, read, understand, and will comply with a set of rules that cover all of the things you mentioned. With so many tenants, word gets around (word of mouth) that the marina enforces the rules. As people become acquainted with their neighbors, they tend to respect each other and try to be considerate (peer pressure). To be frank about it, I've had vehicle problems myself and have fixed starters, electical problems, swapped batteries and even tires wherever my vehicle was parked at the time, mainly because if I had to pay for a tow I probably wouldnt have the money to buy the part I needed. No business has ever hassled me about it. At the last marina I was in, they did not have a problem with people working on their vehicles in such a situation, just as they didn't mind, and were even helpful, with people who needed to do maintenance on their boats.

You said you had a problem with a tenant who was doing exactly the same thing you are doing and wouldn't even rent to yourself. I'm really curious to know why that is? I totally respect your honesty about it and I don't mean this in an antagonistic way, but doesn't that strike you as being a little hypocritical? If the guys starter went out what is really the problem with letting him fix it? When my prop shaft broke and the nearest haulout was over 20 miles away, the marina owner actually got involved with the problem. He suggested towing it as close to the boat ramp as possible and either renting a boom truck or maybe some float bags to raise the stern high enough to get the shaft out of the water. He even offered me the free use of his jonboat to tow it. Several of my powerboat neighbors even offerred to help. It was like a community effort and everybody wanted to pitch in. That is one of the reasons I look forward to the day when I can get into thee lifestyle for good. In my opinion, we need more business owners who understand their customers needs. I'm all for setting a standard and holding people to it but I also think people have to have some common sense and know when to give a little.
zeehag and LoboPops like this.

Last edited by Dean101; 10-22-2012 at 09:54 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #123  
Old 10-23-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 206
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
delite is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Here is a story from Todays Globe and Mail about another BC town getting rid of liveaboards. Seems many dont want to take any responsibility for their actions and unfortunately others are paying the price.

Faced with eviction from the safe harbour in Port Hardy that has been his home for five years, Keith Dorward is making some desperate plans.

On Monday, he walked across town and left his dog, Argo caninus piraticus, at an animal sanctuary, fearing he can’t care for the pet any more. Now, as he gets swept up in a growing trend that is making it hard for people to live year round on boats on the British Columbia coast, he is preparing to leave the harbour under the only power he has left. His own.
“The transmission needs work and I haven’t started the engine for years,” said Mr. Dorward of the small salmon fishing boat, Shangri-La, on which he lives. “But I have a perfectly good set of oars. … It’s going to take a long, long time to work my way down the coast pulling it with a skiff. But I don’t see I have any other option.”

On September 26, the District of Port Hardy Harbour Authority served a Notice to End Moorage on Mr. Dorward and several others who live on vessels in the small port on northern Vancouver Island.

The notice gave them 30 days to move, or “be escorted off the premises by the RCMP.”

The development is part of a movement on the West Coast, where liveaboards are slowly being forced out of urban harbours, because of concerns about pollution, unruly dockside behavior and unsightly boats.

David Pratt, the Harbour Manager in Port Hardy, declined to comment, referring all questions to Mayor Bev Parnham. But Ms. Parnham did not return calls.

Councillor Rick Marcotte didn’t want to discuss the issue either, but indicated the notice was issued because of concerns at the dock.

“Well, we are trying to clean up our harbour, actually. That’s basically it,” he said. “It’s just that there was a bunch of unemployed people with no income that are basically [living on] derelict barges … down there.”

Mr. Dorward, 62, who has a medical disability pension, said his small boat dates to around the Second World War. He can’t afford engine work, but has tried to keep it well maintained otherwise.

He began living aboard after high apartment rents pushed him first out of Vancouver, and then Victoria.

He pays $400 a month for moorage and uses the dockside washroom facilities.

“It’s better than waiting for [apartment] rents to go up, or living in a slum,” he said of his life on the boat.

Mr. Dorward said seven to nine others are living on boats at the dock, and he acknowledged there have been some social issues recently, including fights and one man has been shooting at seagulls and pigeons.

But he thinks the District of Port Hardy is unfairly sweeping out everyone with its broad eviction notice.

“Well frankly, I’m pretty near numb,” Mr. Dorward said when asked how he feels about having to leave the harbour.

Kris Samuels, a director of the B.C. Nautical Residents Association, hadn’t heard of the Port Hardy situation when contacted on Monday. But he wasn’t surprised by it.

“It’s something that’s increasingly happening on the B.C. coast. It seems to be a trend,” he said.

Mr. Samuels said the movement to ban liveaboards from harbours is driven by local authorities who are concerned about poorly kept vessels, sewage problems and unruly social behaviour on docks.

“There are some boaters who aren’t responsible to the environment or to their neighbours. But that’s the minority,” he said.

Mr. Samuels said many people who live aboard their boats have jobs, take pride of ownership in their vessels, and are responsible members of the waterfront community.

He said liveaboards are a part of B.C.’s coastal legacy and they should have places to moor, as they do in Victoria, where three docks have space dedicated for just that usage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #124  
Old 10-23-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,050
Thanks: 30
Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
And I still wouldn't buy into one, because if I decided to rip up the front lawn and plant wildflowers in order to create a bird sanctuary, I wouldn't want to argue about why my grass wasn't 1.4" tall. Then someone changes a rule and the majority says, no, it should be 1.6" tall...Crowdsourcing may work for some things, for some times, but as the crowd changes or even ages...that's a lot of shackles to have on your ankles. I don't say they are ALL bad, but Stepford Wives were highly endorsed too. Not my kettle of tea, wouldn't want to sign into a contract knowing the neighbors could all be replaced, one at a time, and then one day, shazaam, the entire board is certifiable. Glad you've got one that's superior.-Hellosailor
Again a little hyperbole or intellectual excerise. Our eality is different. Our community is certainly no Stepford Wives community. The common areas are all done and beautifully landscapped with lots of flowers, flowering trees etc. We back up to a farm and forrest. No one tells us about grass cutting as the community does it.

Our properties resale is 15% greater than close neighboring similar communiies and properties without a common HOA. Only takes a few hoarders or rotten nerighbors or apples to spoil the communities appearence to effect that.

As I mentioned it isnt for everyone and no one MAKES people live in our community, but if you do you follow specific rules voted upon by members of the community. This is not unlike a club you CHOOSE to belong to, It seems to work where I live. No one is grousing about a Gestapo HOA setting crazy rules. It hasnt been "taken over" by a group of what did you call them "certifiable crazies". If indeed this happened guess what...I would either vote them out.....or exercise my other option....MOVE. I beleive like minded people have the right to set rules on the appearence where they live as long as they arent discriminatory, predudicial or against the law.

The opperative point here is you are not forced to move there. You have the choice not to. I will keep on the lookout to see if the Stepfords start taking over now and be on Stepford patrol

Dave

Dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner

Last edited by chef2sail; 10-23-2012 at 04:03 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #125  
Old 10-23-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,191
Thanks: 21
Thanked 100 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 11
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by delite View Post
Here is a story from Todays Globe and Mail about another BC town getting rid of liveaboards. Seems many dont want to take any responsibility for their actions and unfortunately others are paying the price.

Faced with eviction from the safe harbour in Port Hardy that has been his home for five years, Keith Dorward is making some desperate plans.

..
“The transmission needs work and I haven’t started the engine for years,” said Mr. Dorward of the small salmon fishing boat, Shangri-La, on which he lives. “But I have a perfectly good set of oars. … It’s going to take a long, long time to work my way down the coast pulling it with a skiff. But I don’t see I have any other option.”


....

On September 26, the District of Port Hardy Harbour Authority served a Notice to End Moorage on Mr. Dorward and several others who live on vessels in the small port on northern Vancouver Island.

The notice gave them 30 days to move, or “be escorted off the premises by the RCMP.”

The development is part of a movement on the West Coast, where liveaboards are slowly being forced out of urban harbours, because of concerns about pollution, unruly dockside behavior and unsightly boats.

..

“Well, we are trying to clean up our harbour, actually. That’s basically it,” he said. “It’s just that there was a bunch of unemployed people with no income that are basically [living on] derelict barges … down there.”

....
He began living aboard after high apartment rents pushed him first out of Vancouver, and then Victoria.

He pays $400 a month for moorage and uses the dockside washroom facilities.

“It’s better than waiting for [apartment] rents to go up, or living in a slum,” he said of his life on the boat.

Mr. Dorward said seven to nine others are living on boats at the dock, and he acknowledged there have been some social issues recently, including fights and one man has been shooting at seagulls and pigeons.

....
I think this post is a good picture of the problem.

There are many that live aboard as a life-style that has sailing as the main objective. For that they have to maintain their boat in good shape and that is expensive. If they wanted and have not a boat they could live in a house (I mean not on a slum) and that would be probably cheaper.

An then there are other guys that live in a boat not because they like sailing (some never go out of port) but just because that's the cheapest way to have a place to live in a nice place. Of course their boats reflect this situation, are not well kept.

In the end the authorities trying to deal with the problems raised by the second case are creating problems to the ones that live in a boat because they want (not because they have to) and because they like sailing and cruising life style.

So that are bad news for the last ones because the easy way to deal with it is a prohibition to live aboards or to raise the price of the service.

Perhaps there are other solution that you can try to implement and that would take care of the problem: for the live aboard the obligation to stay out of the marina one or two months a Year. That would certainly not bring a problem to any live aboard cruiser but would get ports rid of all the ones that use a boat just for living, I mean the ones that have not put the engine working for years


...

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2012 at 10:46 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #126  
Old 10-23-2012
CaptainForce's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: living aboard since 1972
Posts: 1,709
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 9
CaptainForce will become famous soon enough
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
...............Perhaps there are other solution that you can try to implement and that would take care of the problem: for the live aboard the obligation to stay out of the marina one or two months a Year. That would certainly not bring a problem to any live aboard cruiser but would get ports rid of all the ones that use a boat just for living, I mean the ones that have not put the engine working for years....
I like this idea, but I would rather the obligation to be out and underway for one or two days a month. Many that may be gainfully employed professionals might not have the opportunity to take off for one or two months within a particular year. I had a ten year span of my forty years living aboard a well kept boat when I had no more than two weeks at a time for cruising.
miatapaul and Heinous like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Take Care and Joy, Aythya Crew
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #127  
Old 10-23-2012
Old enough to know better
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 2,339
Thanks: 18
Thanked 82 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 9
miatapaul is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainForce View Post
I like this idea, but I would rather the obligation to be out and underway for one or two days a month. Many that may be gainfully employed professionals might not have the opportunity to take off for one or two months within a particular year. I had a ten year span of my forty years living aboard a well kept boat when I had no more than two weeks at a time for cruising.
Some marinas do require the boats to leave under there own control at least once a year, but once a month would be better, but would impact all those people who pay and never go to there boats. As some other threads (seems a new one gets opened at least every month) about boats that have no one on them and never go out and what a waste it is. I know there are places like Hawaii that the very limited marinas and some are full of boats that cannot safely leave the docks. I think if you are in an area that has limited dock space if you don't use your boat, make room for those who will. That includes live-aboard. I don't think that a slip should be used as a cheap place to live on the water. I think it is quite alright for someone to live there as long as they are utilizing there boat as a boat and taking it out.
PCP and chef2sail like this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #128  
Old 10-23-2012
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,879
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 98 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

"I don't think that a slip should be used as a cheap place to live on the water."
So I suppose the fine old tradition of prison ships in harbors, and modern prison barges, would also be out of consideration? (G)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #129  
Old 10-23-2012
Old enough to know better
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 2,339
Thanks: 18
Thanked 82 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 9
miatapaul is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"I don't think that a slip should be used as a cheap place to live on the water."
So I suppose the fine old tradition of prison ships in harbors, and modern prison barges, would also be out of consideration? (G)
Hey what the heck they give 3 squares a day, and you get lots of time to read. Sign me up!


but then again, you got to have a roommate, and I don't like guys named Bubba......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #130  
Old 10-23-2012
fallard's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mystic
Posts: 901
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 6
fallard is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Maybe Fernandina considers the liveaboard fee an equitable charge for establishing a de facto residence in town, in addition to the added marina use incurred.

The land side residents are paying for roads, schools, police, trash pickup, sewerage, water, etc, undoubtedly through property taxes. It would only be fair that waterside "residents"--vs short-term transients--represent consumers of public services and should pay more than boaters who are merely parking their boats at the marina.

A web search will show that the median property tax for Fernandina Beach is almost $200/month.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bangladesh denies bail to 33 opposition leaders - KFVS NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-16-2012 08:40 AM
WNC Mustangs face tough opposition in Champions League (Sun Star) NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-26-2006 03:15 PM
School plan sailing, for now Little opposition yet to idea of new elementary center (Scranton Times-Tribune) NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-29-2006 05:15 AM
Re: Outer Brewster Island LNG site faces Park Service opposition NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 05-21-2006 08:25 AM
Outer Brewster Island LNG site faces Park Service opposition NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 05-19-2006 09:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:06 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.