Opposition to liveaboards - Page 14 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #131  
Old 10-23-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallard View Post
Maybe Fernandina considers the liveaboard fee an equitable charge for establishing a de facto residence in town, in addition to the added marina use incurred.

The land side residents are paying for roads, schools, police, trash pickup, sewerage, water, etc, undoubtedly through property taxes. It would only be fair that waterside "residents"--vs short-term transients--represent consumers of public services and should pay more than boaters who are merely parking their boats at the marina.

A web search will show that the median property tax for Fernandina Beach is almost $200/month.
But the liveaboards pay slip rental and that helps pays the property tax for the marina. So they do pay tax, just as someone who rents an apartment helps to pay the property tax for the landlord.

Now I want to move to Fernandina Beach as I am paying over 800 a month in property tax for a very modest house (under 1500 square feet).
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  #132  
Old 10-23-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The seabed is public property. Fisheries have told me they dont give out water leases for private moorings, period. Thus their moorings are on property we all own and they have no legal right to exclude us nor claim ownership of what is a public space by putting a mooring on it.
A cruising lawyer has told me they have no legal right to exclude anyone from a mooring .
You may want to check that again Brent. A simple search of the DFO sight certainly suggests otherwise. Here is info taken from the site:

You may proceed with your mooring project without a DFO review when you meet the following conditions:

the project does not involve the installation or operation of a structure fixed to the bottom (for example, permanent navigational beacon, boat mooring bolted to the substrate), and
you incorporate the Measures to Protect Fish and Fish Habitat when Placing Moorings listed below in this Operational Statement.

Now being allowed to proceed without approval certainly suggest ownership of the mooring. Depending on what boat you tried to tie to mine you may find yourself with a problem.
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  #133  
Old 10-23-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

You guys say that the Europeans pay a lot of tax but I am starting to understand that the way government gets the money is just different. Here they probably will manage to have a way of keeping 60% of what I earn but I would pay as property tax for my 250/300m2 house about 360euros a year. In fact I pay a lot less. Those 360 euros would be what I would pay if the house was built now. As it was built 16 years ago I pay a lot less.

They tax the same way luxury cars, airplanes and boats? I don't think so. So why to buy a house and not a big boat to live on it?

I guess that I start to understand why so many live on boats and why here that is not so frequent

Regards

Paulo
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  #134  
Old 10-23-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

To miatapaul's comment, "But the liveaboards pay slip rental and that helps pays the property tax for the marina. So they do pay tax, just as someone who rents an apartment helps to pay the property tax for the landlord. ":

In our area in New England, the pro rata portion of a slip fee that covers the marina's property tax is literally orders of magnitude less than the property tax a WATERFRONT land owner pays in the same area. It''s no secret that full-time liveaboards are getting something of a (virtually) free ride at the expense of the land-side residents when it comes to paying the cost of local government services.

So, if Fernandina Beach wants to charge an extra $200/month for liveaboards, so be it if it's going into the public treasury. Given the extra marina services provided to a liveaboard and the land side property tax burden, it sounds like a bargain.
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  #135  
Old 10-24-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
Hi Randy.

You said you had a problem with a tenant who was doing exactly the same thing you are doing and wouldn't even rent to yourself. I'm really curious to know why that is? I totally respect your honesty about it and I don't mean this in an antagonistic way, but doesn't that strike you as being a little hypocritical?
Hi Dean,
I will agree, as at the time, I'm replacing the water tanks by building new fiberglass units... and I normally keep my boat in the marina where we own the Canvas and Upholstery Shop, but due to the work I need to do, I had to leave the marina and find a dock where the work would be approved to be done on the dock and the boat..
So in a way I've put myself in the place you speak of.. if work is to be done outside of the boat, I've found a "work" dock to do it on..
and awhile back I did have to do work on my car as the powersteering pump went out.. Now I've got a parking lot at my business, 3 homes I am in partnership with, and the home where I am keeping the boat at present, but I took the car to a friends ranch.. and the main reason was that I knew I would be creating a mess with oil all about and didnt want the mess where it didnt belong..

The reason I brought it up in the first place was, that liveaboards in a marina are like tenants in a home.. you have alot of good ones but because the rent is much lower for slip rental, you will get a lower class of people on average as liveaboards in a marina setting.. and that portion causes issues with all of us.. Its the one bad apple syndrome, and pretty soon, the farmers quit growing apples..
So in the marina setting, one of the factors may be, and I say "Maybe"
the rise in price for liveaboards is to weed-out the undesirables..
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  #136  
Old 10-24-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyonR3 View Post
Hi Dean,
I will agree, as at the time, I'm replacing the water tanks by building new fiberglass units... and I normally keep my boat in the marina where we own the Canvas and Upholstery Shop, but due to the work I need to do, I had to leave the marina and find a dock where the work would be approved to be done on the dock and the boat..
So in a way I've put myself in the place you speak of.. if work is to be done outside of the boat, I've found a "work" dock to do it on..
and awhile back I did have to do work on my car as the powersteering pump went out.. Now I've got a parking lot at my business, 3 homes I am in partnership with, and the home where I am keeping the boat at present, but I took the car to a friends ranch.. and the main reason was that I knew I would be creating a mess with oil all about and didnt want the mess where it didnt belong..

The reason I brought it up in the first place was, that liveaboards in a marina are like tenants in a home.. you have alot of good ones but because the rent is much lower for slip rental, you will get a lower class of people on average as liveaboards in a marina setting.. and that portion causes issues with all of us.. Its the one bad apple syndrome, and pretty soon, the farmers quit growing apples..
So in the marina setting, one of the factors may be, and I say "Maybe"
the rise in price for liveaboards is to weed-out the undesirables..
Thanks for the response Randy and thanks also for not taking my comment personally. I wasn't trying to come off as judgemental. I do see where you're coming from and I can totally understand the frustration both marina owners and other liveaboards must feel when you have to live with this type of problem. I just have a problem with punishing everybody for the actions of a few. It would be one thing if there was no way to tell who the troublemakers are, but there have been lots of posts in this thread where fingers are squarely pointed. If fellow liveaboards are noticing, then marina management would have to be blind not to. I feel that it is their job at that point to just say clean it up and keep it clean, or get out. Period. No need to slap everybody in the face.

Something I find more than a little sad is that it apparent, at least on this forum, that most sailors want the same thing as the authorities and some even offer good suggestions on how to help clean up the anchorages and marinas but the authorities seem to want to just pass whatever law they think is appropriate without concern for the effects on responsible boaters. I have this image in my head of some undesirable dirtbag moving into a high class sub-division and the total Hell that would be raised when the law, instead of targeting the undesireable, just condemned the entire sub-division. And that is what it sounds like is happening in some places according to some of the posts I've read here.

The topping on the cake is the fact that many experienced sailors on this forum give advice to newer sailors that if they stick near the coast they can always run for cover in the event of bad weather. But wouldn't I be better off well away from land where I wouldn't have to worry about being fined for anchoring? I really hope they don't yet have a problem with a sea anchor.
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  #137  
Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

$200 sounds like a sweet deal compared to the $600 liveaboard fee we were quoted for our family of four to live aboard on our 30 foot boat at a San Diego Marina. And that was at the only marina that would even consider us, with two kids. Most places have a two person max. Now we're mooring. Any other SD liveaboard families out there? How do you do it? And where?
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  #138  
Old 12-06-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Wow, $600 is a huge extra charge for living aboard. I don't blame you for passing on that. The two person max is pretty standard for all marinas that I have looked at. None of the liveaboards at my marina have children, that I've noticed. They are mostly just old couples, old single guys, and a few middle-aged couples that are "between cruises."

Wow, four people living on a 30 footer on a mooring? I am impressed. My boat gets crowded with four people on the hook just for a weekend.
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  #139  
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Yes, but two of us are very small -- 2 1/2 years and 4 months. We spend a lot of time playing at parks and the beach, so we never really feel too cramped. i don't understand why marinas would be opposed to families.
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  #140  
Old 12-06-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

I dont think they are opposed to families...just liveaboard ones

Maybe they dont want what could be a proliferation of run down houseboats with lots of teenage kids etc. Kind of like a Trailer Park on the water . Not saying this is you, but look at the possibilities here.

Dave
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