Opposition to liveaboards - Page 20

Brent Swain · #**191** 12-28-2012

A marina operator near me , asked when I'm going to tie up to the dock. I told him that if I won $50 million in the lottery I wouldn't pay someone to hand me a list of rules and regulations as to what I was or was not allowed to do on my own boat. I have stayed out of from marinas for most of the last 40 years of cruising, and find my anchor much easier to deal with.
In a little while, when my pension gives me lots of cash, I may tie to a government dock when the winter gets a cold snap, for a month, to plug in an electric heater, but will quickly leave when it warms up a bit.

AKscooter · #**192** 12-29-2012

This is pretty much a segregation thing. You do not qualify to live in my neighborhood, ei...no money........

Why I like Caddy Shack. Rodney with tons of money so the money grubbers (best I could come up with in polite company) said okay and the stiff shirts (again censored) had to eat it.

The thing is ...if you have money everybody will suck up to you like you could fill a pair of D cups.
They will tell you no...but I watch where the money goes...and right now...people want to live in gated marinas, wear nautica, etc.
People say like the Pardy's may be tolerated as it is PC to do so ...but if they overstay....you damn right they go........
This is the way of the world....always have been that way...

So yes,liveaboards are an endangered species....you are perceived as getting something for nothing....an anathema to the Ayn Randians out there.

Minnewaska · #**193** 12-29-2012

Nonsense. If marinas made more profit overall from liveaboards, they would be full of them.

The problem is they often chase other clients away, who have every right to decide where to spend their money and they are not worth the additional effort and wear and tear. There was a liveaboard captain at our marina this past season and I never saw a day go by that he wasn't hounding the staff for something. He may even have been within his rights for whatever he needed, but part time slip tenants are just lower maintenance.

Condemn people with money all you like, but that's just class warfare. Every stiff shirt I know likes Caddy Shack, but knows when to be respectful of others.

PCP · #**194** 12-29-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKscooter

This is pretty much a segregation thing. You do not qualify to live in my neighborhood, ei...no money........

....
So yes,liveaboards are an endangered species....you are perceived as getting something for nothing....an anathema to the Ayn Randians out there.

I though you guys liked the laws of free market and free choice. As Minnewaska pointed out the reasons that marinas don't want liverboards is because they chase other clients out.

Obviously we are talking of a certain type of liveboards, some liveaboards that change of marina frequently and are not there all the year had already said here that Marinas do not even consider them liveaboards.

The owners of the marinas are there to make money as in any other business. I can understand very well the phenomenon. I have worked as a land developer designer and I can tell you that a basic knowledge is that you cannot mix different social classes, meaning high income people, medium income and poor on the same neighborhood. If you do that you will not sell the luxury houses and will have difficulty in selling the medium income houses. The ones where you got the bigger profit are luxury houses so doing that is just a very stupid thing and one that can take you out of business.

Market rules there and on the marinas.

I guess that the liveaboards have just to try to fit in and blend in the community where they are. If they stand out as different, with unclean boats, stuff around and so on and others don't like to look at it, they are in their right to go away and look for other marina, as the owner of the marina is on his right to try to prevent that to happen.

Regards

Paulo

neverknow · #**195** 12-29-2012

Being naive here.... But I agree with some of the other post. A marina should not even be able to tell you live aboard or not.

Why tell them?

At our marina in Michigan City (Washington park) there's nothing in the rules about how many days or nights you spend on your boat. Just the Marina is open Apr 1st to Nov 1st.

There are a few that do live there, but looking at their boats you'd never know.

hellosailor · #**196** 12-29-2012

"A marina should not even be able to tell you live aboard or not. "

It is their property, their choice of what terms they will rent on. If it makes a difference to them, yes, they should be able to tell you what terms they will or won't accept. You may not like it, but that's the way contracts are made and enforced in the US. You don't like the terms? Either you negotiate other terms, or you find someone else to deal with.

Sometimes, no one wants to make a reasonable deal. Don't like that? Buy your own marina, and try running the business the way YOU want.

neverknow · #**197** 12-29-2012

So hellosailor are you saying that in some marinas they have it in their rental agreement that you can not be on your boat more than a certain number of days and nights? If so who is actually sitting on the docks recording or logging your every move?

Here in the Midwest we have not seen that.

Minnewaska · #**198** 12-30-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverknow

Being naive here.... But I agree with some of the other post. A marina should not even be able to tell you live aboard or not.

Why tell them?

Why can't a marina decide whether they want 24/7 parking, power, water and toilet usage, as opposed to part time?

Quote:

There are a few that do live there, but looking at their boats you'd never know.

That's ultimately the secret, I believe. Our marina has several that live aboard full time from May to Oct. We are aboard 4 days per week, although, leave the dock virtually every weekend. You can't tell a single one lives aboard and everyone is actually a sailor, not a squatter. Its just their summer home. If you look at the vids that PCP posted above, you can tell that a couple of those boats are not intended to ever leave the dock. That is what many marinas are looking to avoid and it is very common to have restrictions in lease agreements here.

wingNwing · #**199** 12-30-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverknow

Being naive here.... But I agree with some of the other post. A marina should not even be able to tell you live aboard or not.

...

There are a few that do live there, but looking at their boats you'd never know.

I interpreted this to mean, "a marina should not be able to determine merely by looking at your boat, whether you live aboard or not;" rather than, "a marina should not have the right to tell you how many nights you may use your boat." Agree with the first interpretation, not the second. For a while I seemed to be on a one-girl campaign to decouple "liveaboard boat" and "derelict and/or messy boat." Walked down our dock and photoed the boats I passed on my way from our slip to the parking lot. You can't really tell by looking, who lives aboard and who doesn't: Life Afloat Archives: A Rant: Generalizations About Liveaboards

PCP · #**200** 12-30-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnewaska

Why can't a marina decide whether they want 24/7 parking, power, water and toilet usage, as opposed to part time?
....

On the med on many marinas you pay everything separately. You have to insert a card o your pontoon meter to have electricity and water that you pay in advance charging the electronic card. The same card is used to have a shower on the toilet (you have to put the card in to have water). With this system they can control and have a fair distribution of costs. Of course I recon that the system is expensive and is needed on account of liveaboards and is paid by all but it seems to me the best solution.

Regards

Paulo