Opposition to liveaboards - Page 21 - SailNet Community
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post #201 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
On the med on many marinas you pay everything separately. You have to insert a card o your pontoon meter to have electricity and water that you pay in advance charging the electronic card. The same card is used to have a shower on the toilet (you have to put the card in to have water). With this system they can control and have a fair distribution of costs. Of course I recon that the system is expensive and is needed on account of liveaboards and is paid by all but it seems to me the best solution.

Regards

Paulo
That sounds like a reasonable system to distribute cost, but it doesn't address the marina owner that just doesn't want to be bothered by the constant wear and tear. I know you get that.

Let's put everyone in the shoes of the owner. You all get about $5 million to buy a marina that is fully occupied.

One has nothing but weekend warriors. You have a big customer push from Fri to Mon, but mid-week is pretty calm and you reduce staff and catchup on work orders.

The other has a bunch of liveaboards, who all pay their increased cost, but you have to deal with more customers during the week and some of your transients keep turning over because they don't like the one or two bad apples.

Same profit from both marinas. Which do you buy?


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post #202 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
That sounds like a reasonable system to distribute cost, but it doesn't address the marina owner that just doesn't want to be bothered by the constant wear and tear. I know you get that.

Let's put everyone in the shoes of the owner. You all get about $5 million to buy a marina that is fully occupied.

One has nothing but weekend warriors. You have a big customer push from Fri to Mon, but mid-week is pretty calm and you reduce staff and catchup on work orders.

The other has a bunch of liveaboards, who all pay their increased cost, but you have to deal with more customers during the week and some of your transients keep turning over because they don't like the one or two bad apples.

Same profit from both marinas. Which do you buy?
Of course, except if the price of the water and electricity is sufficiently high to cover that and that's the case at least partially. Those prices are pretty irrelevant for the ones that use the boat only on weekends, let's say an average of $7 a day but to a guy that uses the boat everyday that means $210 a month or $2550 a year over the price of a rent of a guy that don't use those services.

There is always a way of finding a fair distribution of costs even if I recon that liveaboards would not like that.

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post #203 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Let me contest some of your assumptions: If you've done your job pricing properly, the marina with more use all week long is going to give you more profit. Metered electric for liveaboards. As a transient, I've begun to see metered electric in several marinas we've visited, even where we stay as little as a week. More often though, it seems to be flat rate based on the power requirement, $7/night for 30 amp and $10/night for 50 amp, etc. Haven't seen anyone in the US bill for water yet; we seem to be a bit behind in that department.

And who's to say you won't find "bad apples" at a marina full of weekenders? These are the ones who come down Friday night and start drinking - loudly - and throwing the cans overboard. Hey, they're on vacation, right? They should be expected to cut loose. And trash? What do they care, they're going home again next week. They're not very experienced on their boats, so they bash into things, do damage, need help from the dockhands EVERY time they enter or leave their slip, etc etc.

This is an extreme example, of course. Inconsiderate boaters - "bad apples" - are bad apples, Minne. I don't believe you find proportionately more of them in one population than another. As the marina manager, you just write your slip leases to allow you to kick out the people who are losers no matter how many nights they do or don't sleep aboard.


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post #204 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

oops, sorry PCP, I was composing while you were posting. Looks like we had some of the same idea.


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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Wing.... just to be clear. I'm not opposed to liveaboards. I do, however, understand why some marina owners are. I also agree that there are bad apples in all populations. However, the weekenders leave the marina owner alone most of the time and the liveaboards are always around.

I'm just saying that I understand why they are viewed very differently.

I also reject that all live aboards have junk everywhere. However, those that do are also a huge disincentive for the marina owners to permit them and take their chances. Weekend warriors and transients are also much easier to evict.
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post #206 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

I know you aren't, Minne; I'm just pushing back at generalizations that I didn't think were well articulated way back at the beginning of the thread.

It's weird, some marina owners love the extra security and long-term community that liveaboards provide, others don't want the hassle of making extra accomodations. Judging by the price of slips around here, both types seem able to make money. (and plenty of it!)


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post #207 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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I interpreted this to mean, "a marina should not be able to determine merely by looking at your boat, whether you live aboard or not;" rather than, "a marina should not have the right to tell you how many nights you may use your boat." Agree with the first interpretation, not the second. [/url]
The first interpretation is what I meant.
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post #208 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

"Living aboard" has two manifestations: 1. people who plop themselves in a marina and stay put for months. 2. People who keep moving (permanent cruisers). Those who keep moving need to actually operate a SAILBOAT and can't have a bunch of junk scattered all over. I agree that no one wants to be stuck next to a garbage scow for even one day, tripping over debris on the dock. It's not a class warfare issue, just basic neatness. Quite frankly, actually living on a boat squeezed in among 200 other boats, people constantly walking down the dock craning their necks to look in, is not (IMO) a really great place to be. I've done it. Only occasionally do I dock anywhere. It only inhibits my ability to get going early and sail.

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post #209 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

and then there are those of us with refit in progress and using WORK docks for storm seasons--outside of usa--there are some absurd rules and regulations in marinas in usa.
is much moe pleasant to cruise outside of usa. weather is beter, also, south of lat 28...

i believe i am at lat 17, at present....lovely here.
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post #210 of 273 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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and then there are those of us with refit in progress and using WORK docks......
Our marina has a service dock. I would bet one would be welcome to relocate over there for an extended messy job. Sounds like a pretty reasonable approach.
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