Opposition to liveaboards - Page 22 - SailNet Community
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post #211 of 273 Old 12-31-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

service/work docks ROCK!!! can effect repairs without complaint, no matter what those repairs are...so far!


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post #212 of 273 Old 12-31-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

People who have spent their lives catering to the relevance of money , feel their entire belief system threatened, when anyone demonstrates the ability to make money and the power it supposedly gives it's diciples , less relevant , proving the consumer religion on which money grubbers base their lives, a bit of a folly, especially when such lower income people end up with a happier and freer life than they do..

I have often been vehemently attacked, for enabling low income people to have better boats than the rich have, without their having to grovel to wealth.
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post #213 of 273 Old 01-01-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
People who have spent their lives catering to the relevance of money , feel their entire belief system threatened, when anyone demonstrates the ability to make money and the power it supposedly gives it's diciples , less relevant , proving the consumer religion on which money grubbers base their lives, a bit of a folly, especially when such lower income people end up with a happier and freer life than they do..

I have often been vehemently attacked, for enabling low income people to have better boats than the rich have, without their having to grovel to wealth.

While I agree commercialism can get a little out of hand esp during the holidays. The fact is the world runs on money. You have to have it to do anything. If you don't use your own cash than you have to be consuming someone else's.

Sure you can barter for a lot of things, but most of those things you get in trade were bought by someone with cash before they traded it to you.

Again I do agree that many get caught in the keep up with the neighbors type lifestyle. If they get a new car I need one too. my house or boat has be to better than theirs. All that does look and sound stupid. But in the end those people are what drives to prices for new products down to where the rest of us can afford them.

Those products include many marine products that us low budget people can now afford.
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post #214 of 273 Old 01-01-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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While I agree commercialism can get a little out of hand esp during the holidays. The fact is the world runs on money. You have to have it to do anything. If you don't use your own cash than you have to be consuming someone else's.

Sure you can barter for a lot of things, but most of those things you get in trade were bought by someone with cash before they traded it to you.
I disagree with this.

Money is not the lubricant or the fuel for most of the world's people. It's only in "civilized" countries that a parent pays their child to babysit their own brother or sister. Many of the people in this world live day to day without money, they eat, sleep, bath, keep themselves warm, take care of their children, grow their food, raise their animals, etc, without using money.

I would agree with what you wrote if you had written that the world works on exchange of value because for the most part it does, but that exchange of value is rarely money in places where hard currency is scarce, more often it is things like labor, food, affection, and promises.

I think Brent Swain has a point.
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post #215 of 273 Old 01-01-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

You can give money as much or as little importance as you like. There is a basic level of money everyone in the US needs to reach but if a person is wise in the areas of debt and "needs vs wants," the level of money needed is really not that much. The bigger issue is independence which to me equals happiness, the thing everyone, rich or poor wants. You cannot be independent if you owe a lot of money or if you let jealousy and envy affect your decisions. Being on the American treadmill is a hideous place to be no matter how many dollars you accumulate. It's a place many get stuck and then forget what really matters. I just wish more people would have time to take a step back and reassess what this short span of existence is all about but that would terrify those that want to see everyone on the treadmill.

Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
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post #216 of 273 Old 01-01-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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I disagree with this.

Money is not the lubricant or the fuel for most of the world's people. It's only in "civilized" countries that a parent pays their child to babysit their own brother or sister. Many of the people in this world live day to day without money, they eat, sleep, bath, keep themselves warm, take care of their children, grow their food, raise their animals, etc, without using money.

I would agree with what you wrote if you had written that the world works on exchange of value because for the most part it does, but that exchange of value is rarely money in places where hard currency is scarce, more often it is things like labor, food, affection, and promises.

I think Brent Swain has a point.
And the ball is lost in the weeds again....lol

Since this thread is about live aboard marinas, I think this spring I'll go to our marina office and ask what besides money can I give to allow me to stay. There answer will probably the title to my boat if I don't give them cash or remove my boat from their property.

The reason cash is first in value is it helps equal out things. Someone can offer labor in exchange for something, but what quality of labor are you getting? One persons idea of hard work will very greatly with another.

If you have a job your pay will eventually adjust itself to the value of what you are doing. This not always happens but generally it does.

There are many places even in the USA where I have used trade of services to avoid paying cash and I agree those instances have been more rewarding than simply handing over $$. just not at the marina.

I'm done with this subject and counting the days until our boat is launched, Only 90 to go.
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post #217 of 273 Old 01-01-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

I'm glad Joshua Slocum didn't share some of these ideals about what was needed to sail around the world, or the Pardeys, or more recently Donna Lange on Inspired Insanity, and many others. It would be disappointing if those ideals were the only way to sail, to voyage, and live aboard.
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post #218 of 273 Old 01-01-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

I am very curious. Suddenly I noticed that this thread is big, I mean it is not a dilettante thing but really goes deep on the interest of the members of this forum, I mean this thread has about 200 replies for about 10 000 hits. That means that 500 are looking after each post. That really surprised me.

So, a question: Why this is so important, I mean why this topic is so hot among the members of this forum? What is at stake here that is so meaningful to cruisers?

There are a relative consensus about the subject? It seemed to me that there was one but I am not sure now. What is the real issue here? If there is not a consensus what are the two main views on the subject?


....
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post #219 of 273 Old 01-02-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

To PCP.... To me this discussion (and you will read it in alot of comments) is about FREEDOM, Freedom of choice, haves vs. have nots, money , the US Constitution, Republicans vs Democrats. Neat freaks vs messy people. Like the "Odd Couple " on TV. In some ways like the Recent American election.
....People who follow the "rules" versus people who don't or would like to not follow the rules. Underdogs vs others. About "truth , justice and the American way ".
....We don't have a Queen or a King,or Dictator. WE are a democracy. Right wing thinkers versus Left Wing thinkers. Freedom. These are just a few things that come to mind.... PCP, your descriptions of some MARINAS are not the kind of CONTROL that many Americans want. I,we, don't want "big brother'" watching and controlling us. Some want freedom to have guns, some don't (these ideas are underlying this discussion---in my opinion---! You live in Portugal??
...as you will see this post will anger some here on sailnet with other opinions and open a whole new can of worms.

Last edited by sidney777; 01-02-2013 at 02:28 AM. Reason: add
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post #220 of 273 Old 01-02-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

The last bastion of freedom is sailing your boat offshore.....


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