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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #231  
Old 01-03-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
far from the control freaks
Absolutely ... this is the best solution.
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  #232  
Old 01-03-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

One thing out here is a greater amount of tolerance amongst the cruisers/liveaboards/day sailors/marina operators. Seems like everybody is busy doing projects, decks full of gear and sometimes spilling out onto the finger piers. Never heard anybody complaining. Many times the boat next door is overly apologetic about the mess they make....Guess being in the same boat as everybody else leads to a lot more understanding.
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  #233  
Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Thank god I live in a place where the use of marinas is optional! I find that staying out of them completely solves the above mentioned problems. With my super low maintenance, twin keel steel sloop, I have only hauled out twice in 28 years , both times in Tonga, due to a 5,000 mile, mostly windward sail ahead of me.
Here in BC, all people are doing to avoid the rules is find a deserted bay, far from the control freaks ,to do their work in. There is no shortage of such places, far from any serious chance of anyone encountering a government control freak. See one coming and they head into the bush, no problem.
Well thats one extreme way of looking at it. Some of us prefer to be around the company of others. Some want access to cultural things like museums, music ventues, plays. Some want to be closer to where they work and dont work in th emarine industry. Some like the buzz of city living. Some want the comfort of a home on land with trees, squirrels, deer, birds. Most are in the middle between what you want ( living remotely and isolated) and living in the downtown of a big city,

It has nothing to do with encountering a government control freak. One way is not better than the other, its about peronal choice and preference, Very rarely do I hear people really envy the choices of others unless they are forced to live where they are due to economic means. Eg I live near a big city in its suburbs with trees and animals. I dont envy or want to live in the city, nor do I want to live secluded in a cove on my boat.

People who chose to liveaboard have my respect even though its not what I chose to do. ( Jaye dont shoot me as I will generalize here). People who I have met who are living aboard or are cruisiing, some not all or even most, but some of them have this superior attitude that they are somewhat better than the rest of us as the forgo some of the creature comforts or they live a queiter back to nature type life style. To me its no different better than living the way I do,,,,just their and my choice what works best for us. Living aboard in a marina with your neighbors on top of you is not what I want. I also would bet if you serveyed liveaboards, they like that not everyone there is a liveaboard or they would get no peace.

When we retire we will not live aboard our boat ( we are looking for a 42-45 to go cruising on). We may however for 4-5 months sail our temporary home to warmer weather. But we will always have a land based home, and one of the reasons is a basic difference we have not discussed in this thread.

Now back to the gist of the thread

My home,because of it being a financial asset of mine which has over time continued to accrue value may be seen far differently than a liveaboard sees their boat in a marina. Most liveaboards have value in their boat, but as we all know boats rarely appreciate in value, the do the opposite. Most of us who are land based may have a different mindset when it comes to properites and value and that carries forth to where you keep your boat. The individual boatowner who live aboard in the marina doesnt care if the marina property increases in value, ( much like a person who has a mobile home in a mobile park). The liveaboard generally wont have the same roots and can just pick up and move, while the marina owner is stationary and is certainly not looking for his property to devalue. The liveaboard is renting a space, while the owner is committed to be there permanently. For the sake of discussion, I think you can put liveaboards in the same categories as people with mobile homes. By their nature they are mobile homes, just on the water and not on land. Its a genralization and may not apply to you, but people who own property have more invested in it and genrally take care of it better over the long and short run. Their property value is dependent on it and that your neighbors feel the same. In a land based community of home owners that usually is the case so the value increase. In a land based community of renters you usually see faster and greater deteriorization.

Many of us who keep our boats in a marina, especially in seasonal areas like the Chesapeake utilize our boats/ docks/ facilities on weekends, and during the season. We go back to our land based homes. Our requirements for our boat are somewhat different than a liveaboard. Even the way we look at our boating experience is different. I go down to our boat and want to go out on her. Many of the liveaboards in our club rarely go out on their boats. In fact some of them have an attitude when the weekend rolls around with comments to each other like "there goes the neigborhood" or its "certainly more peaceful during the week when you guys arent here" or " we feel like we are invaded on the weekends and in the summer, its not as pleasent to live here".

These of course are genralizations and dont apply to my friend wingnwing who I know personally, but have been attitudes we have received from liveaboards in our club.

Lastly I want to debunk another generalization. Just because there are liveaboards present doesnt mean they are watching our boats and they are less likely to be vandalized and broken into any more likely than in a mobile home park. If you keep your boat in an area where that is an issue I would suggest you get a security personael or take other means to secure things.

The boats in a locked down marina with no liveaboards may in fact be safer as there would rarely be a reason anyone would be on the property after certain hours and during certain months of the year. Most of our vandalism and breakins have occured during the late fall, winter, early spring months when we must remain open and accessable because there are people living there full time.

I am not anti liveaboard at all, in fact I respect the lifestyle as a choice. We have friends who choose this lifestyle in marinas and who are cruisers with no home base. Thet arre happy well adjusted people as I hope we are. The choose what is better for them just as we choose whats better for us. Respect should be given both ways.


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  #234  
Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
....Many times the boat next door is overly apologetic about the mess they make........
Maybe that's the difference. Most junkers I've seen don't seem to care what anyone around them thinks. That attitude has been expressed above, by some.
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  #235  
Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Maybe that's the difference. Most junkers I've seen don't seem to care what anyone around them thinks. That attitude has been expressed above, by some.
Agreed or they truly are oblivios, because thats just the way they live.

Dave
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  #236  
Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

People will band into tribes for just about any reason. In fact, if there's no apparent reason to oppose the "other" they'll make one up. Such it is with the "liveaboards" vs the "weekenders." It's the same here in ski country where we deride the "turkeys" who come from cities to enjoy the mountains. It's just a sad fact of human nature. "Live and let live" is a great, elusive idea.
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  #237  
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
People will band into tribes for just about any reason. In fact, if there's no apparent reason to oppose the "other" they'll make one up. Such it is with the "liveaboards" vs the "weekenders." It's the same here in ski country where we deride the "turkeys" who come from cities to enjoy the mountains. It's just a sad fact of human nature. "Live and let live" is a great, elusive idea.
Something to that, I suppose.

However, as I've mentioned in my marina, its nearly impossible to tell who is living aboard for the summer. As a result, every weekender I know wants to be just like them. It's only the odd inconsiderate boater (weekender or liveaboard) that shakes the peace. Having prolonged junk around would be inconsiderate in our marina neighborhood.
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  #238  
Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

When I have asked the question of this thread previously, more than once I was told that liveaboards don't pay toward the city infrastructure, i.e., we don't pay any property taxes, and thus we are seen as less than desirables.
Granted, the marina we pay our slip fees to, pays a property tax, which is like any other "renters", but, unlike apartment renters, we are seen as probably being able to buy a home, yet we chose not to.
And that choice makes us suspicious. We are not like "them", of our own choice, and as Chef2Sail pointed out most eloquently, there are some very real and basic differences to our values which also puts us at odds with landowners.
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  #239  
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
People will band into tribes for just about any reason. In fact, if there's no apparent reason to oppose the "other" they'll make one up. Such it is with the "liveaboards" vs the "weekenders." It's the same here in ski country where we deride the "turkeys" who come from cities to enjoy the mountains. It's just a sad fact of human nature. "Live and let live" is a great, elusive idea.
That is a scientific fact. Some days ago I was truly amazed with a psychology study (and a movie about it) that studied the human behavioral comportment of kids with a year and less regarding knowing if the concept of evil is a innate or acquired one. The study was very interesting about that but as a bonus they found out that necessity of belonging to a group and viewing all the other as outsiders is also an innate thing. Probably is more older than the spices and comes already from our ancestors in evolution. Even in what regards anthropology studies of primitive tribes the concept of man was used only to the members of a tribe. The other men, with other cultures, were not considered man, but aliens and strangers to their world.

Even in recent times we can see the vilifying of others buy opposing to us. A good example in modern times is the way kamikaze bombers are looked: By one side as brain washed terrorists while the other side looks at them as martyrs and heroes.

That's an innate thing that we all should fight and substitute by tolerance, understanding and comprehension of the others mixed with the understanding that the rights of each person are not an absolute but that they have to be self limited or regulated in a way that they do not collide with other persons/cultures rights.

Not an easy situation in a crowded planet and much easier to manage in the wilderness with few people around than in densely populated areas.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 01-04-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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  #240  
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That is a scientific fact. Some days ago I was truly amazed with a psychology study (and a movie about it) that studied the human behavioral comportment of kids with a year and less regarding knowing if the concept of evil is a innate or acquired one. The study was very interesting about that but as a bonus they found out that necessity of belonging to a group and viewing all the other as outsiders is also an innate thing. Probably is more older than the spices and comes already from our ancestors in evolution. Even in what regards anthropology studies of primitive tribes the concept of man was used only to the members of a tribe. The other men, with other cultures, were not considered man, but aliens and strangers to their world.

Even in recent times we can see the vilifying of others buy opposing to us. A good example in modern times is the way kamikaze bombers are looked: By one side as brain washed terrorists while the other side looks at them as martyrs and heroes.

That's an innate thing that we all should fight and substitute by tolerance, understanding and comprehension of the others mixed with the understanding that the rights of each person are not an absolute but that they have to be self limited or regulated in a way that they do not collide with other persons/cultures rights.

Not an easy situation in a crowded planet and much easier to manage in the wilderness with few people around than in densely populated areas.

Regards

Paulo
+1 100 agree

Tolerance and understanding often times require you to think about the other persons views, situation so you can understand the reason they think they do. Doesnt mean you have to agree or compromise your beliefs,,,but make room for others.

Dave
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