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Opposition to liveaboards

41K views 272 replies 50 participants last post by  Ravenhawk 
#1 ·
I want to share something with you guys and I want to know IF you have ever experienced anything like this....We are New to the sailing world and love it....we chose to live aboard our boat for MANY reasons...well...we found this awesome Marina in Fernandina Beach that is run by the city......anyway...they told us the live aboard rate was going to go up $200 a month! Is there opposition to live aboards or is this an isolated case?
 
#2 ·
Attitudes about liveaboards has always been confusing. I can see a charge if the electricity or water is not metered to cover the marina's additional expense. Otherwise, there's no additional expense from the marina's perspective. Who cares whether you are on the boat or not.

Liveaboards are the best security that you can get as they are always there. So there's upside to having them there.
 
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#21 ·
But, people who live anywhere can cause problems and there are some jackasses on boats who may ruin it for some of the other boaters.
Unfortunately I have seen enough drunks on boats doing this that it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. They become loud and infringe on the solitude of the experience, hell I even want them gone.
 
#5 ·
Our marina charges more for liveaboards but I think it is to cover the electric water and pump out because they are not metered. So I think that is only fair. They consider living aboard more than 16 days per month as liveaboards.
I personally have nothing against liveaboards unless they have a big mess on the outside of their boats. Only one at our marina was like that....and I was glad when they left. I kind of felt like if they had to have all that stuff on the deck of their boat they should have just rented a storage building or bought a deck box.

Everyone should take enough pride in their home to keep it clean and attractive. Leaking fuel cans, bags of garbage, old worn out tarps etc. really don't need to be on the decks.

No one wants to look at the beautiful views in a marina or in front of their waterfront home and see a derelict vessel that is not being cleaned or cared for. Keeping your boat clean does not cost a lot of money or even take as much time as keeping up a yard.
 
#6 ·
I personally have nothing against liveaboards unless they have a big mess on the outside of their boats. Only one at our marina was like that....and I was glad when they left. I kind of felt like if they had to have all that stuff on the deck of their boat they should have just rented a storage building or bought a deck box.

Everyone should take enough pride in their home to keep it clean and attractive. Leaking fuel cans, bags of garbage, old worn out tarps etc. really don't need to be on the decks.

.
This is very true; however, I don't think of it as confined to liveaboards vs daysailors or other users with houses elsewhere. It's just a case of consideration, and standards.

Our marina also charges a fee of $100/month or more (depending on the boat size) for liveaboards. In addition to power and water usage, liveaboards make more frequent use of amenities like the clubhouse, pool, and gym. My favorite perk, tho, is that if they know you're aboard, they prioritize shoveling the snow off your dock and even off your finger pier. YES, I'd be willing to pay extra for that this winter.
 
#7 ·
I think it makes sense to have a liveaboard fee. Some marinas around me say no way to a liveaboard, others charge and yet others make no differentiation. Examples of marinas views:

No the county does not allow it (funny as several others in the same county do)

No we don't allow live aboard. (nasty place anyway)

Do what you want. (mooring, but no land services at all, except for an portolet)

Sure lots of folks spend the whole season on there boats, we like having folks around as it makes the barbeques more fun. No extra fee. (electric included in slip fee, full bathrooms and amenities including pool and gym)

What do I care, if anyone asks I will just say oh him, yea, he spends a lot of time on the boat no difference to me. No extra fee. (electric included in slip fee full bathrooms)

Great we have not had a live aboard for a few years, would love to have one again. Good for security (not a bad area at all in fact quite isolated) No extra fee. (electric included in slip fee, bathrooms but no showers)

One place even advertizes it but off season is $20 more a foot plus a $50 month charge and the electric is metered.

So there is a big variety. I am not sure some of the marinas really knew that was planning on not having any land address at all. Biggest issue for me is that there are only 2 marinas that have in water during the winter and both are 45 min drive from work but in opposite directions. Parking is not really an issue at either winter place, but might at some of the summer places.
 
#9 ·
I have not experienced any hostility, but I can believe that some ordinary people as well as marina staff might have adverse feelings about the matter.

When I was calling around for rates, inquiring if the marina allowed liveaboards, a few times I got a tentative "Uh...yesss". The first thing I did was assure them that my boat was in good repair, visually appealing, that I am neat and tidy, have no pets, and that I would definitely be sailing, and not permanently attached to the pier. This would usually evoke a relieved sigh and an invitation to come on down.

The marina I settled on is not luxurious. No swimming pool or tennis courts but it is absolutely wonderful. It's small, sheltered, quaint, has a very cool antique club-house, is a short motor to the "raise sail" point, and by and large, I like my neighbors just fine.

I'm blessed/lucky and I know it.:)
 
#10 · (Edited)
living aboard tied to a dock is not the best live aboard experience. living aboard on the hook or while traveling is much more preferred. As per the judgemental attitudes about how a boat is kept and how and what is stored where , none of my bussiness how others choose to keep thier property.
I don't care for everything I see outside the boundaries of my land property but I don't try to dictate how it should look or be kept.
If I see something beyond the boundaries of my property that upsets me I simply avert my eyes to spare myself the agravation. Or to put it more plainly, I mind my own bussiness.
If I wanted to harass my neighbors I'd get a house in a homeowners assoc.

The bottom line is, my boats travel and when I don't get the happy happy reception I take my boat and my pennies elsewhere as they both seem to work well just about anywhere.
case in point- St. Augustine -- don't need it , just float right on by- - - --------
 
#12 ·
l...
I don't care for everything I see outside the boundaries of my land proprty but I don't try to dictate how it should look or be kept.
If I see something beyond the boundaries of my proprty that upsets me I simply avert my eyes to spare myself the agravation. Or to put it more painly, I mind my own bussiness. If I wanted to harass my neighbors I get a house in a homeowners assoc.

-- --------
That is you that are not managing a marina. The ones that are doing that are interested in maintaining clients satisfied and that include keeping it in a way that pleases the vast majority and it is their business to make rules how others should keep their property to warrant that the ambiance suits that majority.

Of course if you don't agree you can always leave and look for one that suits you or even one that has no rules at all, even if that is hard to imagine.

And rules are not only to live in a marina. In Holland if your house has a yard, if you have it not properly cared, you will be fined. Beautiful gardens everywhere and that's the way they want it. They will not allow that some careless guy spoil that even if it is on its yard. Everybody knows the rules, you can always live elsewhere, in a house without a yard:D

Regards

Paulo
 
#11 ·
While I agree with you on some points Joe, the boats that have 15lb anchors on a little bit of thin nylon rope that go bouncing off other boats dumping whatever garbage they feel like over the side. Doesn't matter where you are, you can't be spilling your crap over into your neighbors place. I had a neighbor who's property was neck deep in garbage, the rats in our yard were never ending, no matter how many traps we set out. Finally one day the city cleaned it up and the rats stopped.

Also, your house is unlikely to go careening around and bumping into your neighbors, nor is your neighbor quite so likely to have to drag you out of the water because you fall in drunk while trying to dodge around the washing machines, bicycles and multiple dinghys stacked on deck.

I think some basic rules, well enforced are much nicer than the usual alternative of nothing happening until lots of complaints roll in, then all living aboard being banned, and being enforced enthusiastically, ruining it for everyone.
 
#14 ·
I guess holland is off the list. Dam I was just about to head over there too.... now I guess I'l have to slum it here ,shucks.

when I was much younger I used to run around w/ a bunch of friends on motorcycles and we all had jackets w/ the same thing on the back . Sometimes we would stop and have a drink. Occasionally we would encounter opposition to our choice of transportation and or dress.
Being young and able we would sometimes get offended that not all tavern proprietors appreciated our patronage and we would sometimes resort to violence or a destructive action of the premises and or patrons / proprietors.
Looking back now I wonder why we even bothered ? we should have just gone to where we were welcomed and appreciated !
Now,years later, I try not to get worked up around places I'm not suited for anymore , why bother when my pennies spend everywhere and I enjoy myself more around fun folks rather than walking on glass around folks who aren't welcoming.

This trip I'm taking a line from the Pardy's , when I anchor someplace and the locals ask how long I plan on staying I'll aswer "As long as I feel welcome" .
Too many great people around to hang with, to waste this short life on the others.

life is fun when you enjoy it .
 
#15 ·
Dont let the "vigilantes of conformity "sabotage your cruising, or other lifestyle dreams. They have completely taken over other chatlines, attacking anyone who offers innovative and imaginative solutions, rendering these chatlines totally useless for anyone seeking solutions.
I have met marina managers who will smile at your face, while cursing you to others behind your back. Ditto many others.
Yes, keeping things clean and tidy helps a lot, both for yourselves and others.
 
#16 ·
We don't have year round live aboards, as no one can stay over the winter at all. We do have several who live aboard full time all season, approx 6 months. Mostly retired folks. In each case, they seem to make it hard to tell and that is what works.

No surcharge that I know of, however, you don't get to pay a flat free for electricity. If you're aboard full time, you get a meter.
 
#17 ·
I just thought of another example. There was a large powerboat in our marina that had a full time captain that lived aboard. The owner came and went. I swear I saw that Captain consuming staff time each and every day. Not really sure if he was complaining or what he was doing. But it was clear that he was high maintenance for the marina. That sort of behavior probably encourages a marina to have a liveaboard fee.
 
#18 ·
We've always tried to show up in person, with a picture of the boat, when inquiring about liveaboard slips. Lets the manager know us, s/he can figure out if we're likely to be good citizens of the marina community, and know that our boat is maintained in seaworthy condition. We've never had a problem getting dockage.
 
#20 ·
We've always tried to show up in person, with a picture of the boat, when inquiring about liveaboard slips. Lets the manager know us, s/he can figure out if we're likely to be good citizens of the marina community, and know that our boat is maintained in seaworthy condition. We've never had a problem getting dockage.
Yea, thats a cool way to go and you've got pretty boat, and solely based on your posts you seem like nice folks and all.
I guess I just got a problem having to convice someone to take my money.
I've never been refused a slip any place that I can recall, but then I don't often take a slip. And when I do I pay up front cash on the spot in advance,signed contract done deal.
As of the last few years due to economic factors I see a few places that previously had their noses held pretty high singing a different tune when 2/3rds of there docks are empty, I like to go in to them and act like I'm interested in a slip and laugh at them when they grovel. right now it's a buyers market and cash is king.
besides all the snooty places are filled with boring uninteresting people.
The easier going do-it-yourself type marinas and yards host a more entertaining assortment of salty individuals w/ much more interesting exchange and experiences.
I dig that, if I want boring uptight I'd just stay home and keep running the Shoe repair all year long and skip the cruising/sailing. I love old boatyards filled w/ old sailboats and seafarers.
And real people having pot lucks and daily byob happy hours.
If you ain't got epoxy stuck to you and bottom paint sanding dust in you hair your just missing out!
 
#24 ·
Yea, thats a cool way to go and you've got pretty boat, and solely based on your posts you seem like nice folks and all.
Thanx, Joe. I know we've had our share of honest differences of opinion online over the years, but ultimately, we both want the same thing ... good cruising experiences for all.

BTW, like you, we prefer working yards to resort marinas. Except for the one we were at where the yard workers started drinking hard and fast promptly at 5:01 every Friday night, and one of them in particular became a mean, angry drunk by the time we took the dog for her last walk of the evening, and there was no way to avoid passing the group. I wasn't sorry to see him fired.
 
#23 ·
we found this awesome Marina in Fernandina Beach that is run by the city......anyway...they told us the live aboard rate was going to go up $200 a month!
Wow, that's really high for a liveaboard fee in Florida. My add-on fee is $100 a month which is fairly standard in Florida. Electric is metered, but wifi/cable is free and we have a nice lounge with computers, tv and I believe there's an exercise room.

I really don't mind the fee since the marina has done a lot of improvements over the last couple years. New docks, repaved the parking lots, renovating the laundry and showers, etc.

If it's municipal I wonder if the city is hurting for funds and trying for a cash grab.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Our club charges 200 a month for liveaboards. The winter water lines are only necesaary because of them as the regualr dock water is turned off at the end of November- February.

In addition I dont see that a fee is unreasonable as the liveaboards are getting away with not paying property taxes, which fund schools here. In setting rent for apts that is a consideration for the renting charge.

I also see no problem with an HOA and live in a community where the HOA are memebers of the community. The diversity oif the board helps prevent any one individual with abberant strict conformity rules from getting to out of hand. On the other hand the HOA enforcement of some of the community rules keeps our property values higher tha similar communities nearby without them, helps manage the snow removeal and landscaping of the common areas in our community as well as the pool and clubhouse area. No one forces you to live here and if you dont want to comply with the HOA then purchase a house/ townhouse somewhere else.

Dave
 
#26 ·
Of course liveaboards pay property taxes, Dave - the same way that any renter does, by subsidizing the taxes of the landlord or marina. It's a misconception that we're constantly fighting.
 
#27 ·
I wouldn't consider a liveaboard fee to be opposition. I live aboard, and I definitely use more of the water, restrooms, administrative staff, mail, and parking than most of the other tenants. That's not hard to do here, though, since most of the boats are documented in Arizona I've never seen them move--the only people ever on those boats are hired to wash them!

What does seem to be opposition is the limitation. I don't know about other places, but San Diego County only allows a marina to have 10% of its slips live aboard. This sucks when there are slips available but the marina is already at 10%.

I'm moving back home to Hawaii soon, and I've been having a hard time finding a liveaboard slip so far.
 
#28 ·
There are some places here too, that limit the percentage of liveaboard slips. They claim it has to do with limited infrastructure such as parking, pumpouts, electric etc. But if that were truly the case, I'd assume the appropriate percentages would be determined by each individual marina based on their circumstances, not county-wide. So I wonder...
 
#29 ·
Jaye,

I dont see it the same way you do. I dont beleive its a misconception at all.

While yes our overall fees to members of the club help pay the property taxes, they dont use the services. Trash collection, snow removal and municipal services like fire and police would be minimal ay MYC from October through March if there were no lived aboards in our club. We would not need postal delivery or sewerage either. We would need bathrooms heated 12 months per year, The school bus would not have to stop at the club if there were no liveaboards. It would not be correct to compare it to a rental property.

Maybe the way I have phrased it is not correct. I beleive in user fees. The liveaboards use the club, the services, the facilities and the municpal facilities more than most club members who are only present 2/3 days per week for 7 months of the year. Because of this their fair share of the burden of running the club is greater thus the fee. When MYC dsecided to permit liveaboards, we knew we would incurr greater costs. The liveaboards consume more of the clubs resources as well as the communities as opposed to when there were no liveaboards.

In no way do I not want liveaboards at our club...there is one right next to me. I am all for it in a limited basis, and we limit it to 10 % of our 144 slips available. They do keep an eye on my boat as it is left in the water all year most of the winters. This being said, I feel they use the facility more than I do and therefore should be charged accordingly.

Dave
 
#30 ·
Dave, I definitely believe in *user* fees for liveaboards, because we both use, and desire, services. What I objected to was your statement that we don't pay property taxes. We, like you, subsidize the property taxes of the place(s) we keep our boats.
 
#31 · (Edited)
There are some places here too, that limit the percentage of liveaboard slips. They claim it has to do with limited infrastructure such as parking, pumpouts, electric etc. But if that were truly the case, I'd assume the appropriate percentages would be determined by each individual marina based on their circumstances, not county-wide. So I wonder... Wingnwing
This is no different than an HOA with rules or communities over 55. While I beleive anchoring in the water is free and is everyones right as long as you arent blocking channels and polluting, I dont beleive it written that it is a right to be able to dock your boat permanently whereever you feel you want to. From what I have seen, most marinas do not even want to deal with this issue so most do not permit liveaboards. I beleive the decision is strictly a financial one as was the decision in our club. It was not meant to discriminate against them as a group and assign a social stigma to them. We dont want more than 10% because it would create even more changes in our clubs dynamics and incur greater charges thus increase our fees as well as decreaase the life expectancy of the facility. If 270 people use the club 200 days out of the year and 30 365 days per year as it is now, the finanacial impact and life expetancy of the infrastructure would be far different than if the 150 poeple used the club 365 days per year and the other 150 used it 200 days per year. In additon by having an extra 120 people living full time in the county the county services would need to be increased ( schools, police, fire, trash) which would mean the budget would need to be adjusted for the county to handle the extra 120 people living there, which usually means the taxes would go up for everyone. Our fees are for basic property taxes on a facility which is not used 365 days oper year. It seems fair that the people who are incurring the extra costs should pay for them. Thats what a user fee is.

This is strictly a fiinancial decision not meant to attach any social agenda to a person wanting to live on the boat. To beleive that all individuals should pay equally by their marina fees for the county taxes when one group lives there all of ther time and the majority part time....like some have said in the presdiential debates...just doesnt add up. Do the math. Marinas and our club are finanacial profit making businesses. They shouldnt have to absorb losses or pass them on to spread them amongst other memebers. People who use....should pay.

Dave
 
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