Opposition to liveaboards - Page 7 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree177Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 10-13-2012
Dean101's Avatar
Life is a wild ride!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 396
Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Dean101 is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

This has been an interesting thread to follow in that there were many more perspectives shared than I have considered. I'm not sure how my question will fit in to the discussion but I'll ask anyway. How does living aboard on a mooring fit into all this? Is it allowed or overlooked? Does marina management tend to take a different view and do limitations such as those cited in California apply? I ask this because the discussion has focused almost entirely on being tied to a dock. Surely there are those that live on moorings also.

For the relatively short period that I owned my first boat there was a short period, when my jobsite was closer to the boat than home, where I lived on my boat 5-7 days a week. I absolutely loved it. There were no additional charges incurred by me. I did use more water and electricity while onboard. The water was free, the electricity metered, but on the other hand I did make more purchases such as ice and snacks. The marina owner also commented that he noticed much less loitering from campers in a nearby campground at night while I was there and I felt like I contributed to the security of the place in some small way. Since I was tied to the other side of the fuel dock, there were several instances that I assisted powerboaters in tying up to fuel when the help hadn't arrived yet (small marina).

Based on my own limited experience, I can understand a small, reasonable fee for liveaboards and I can understand a marina wanting to maintain certain standards. I also think that responsible liveaboards contribute to the welfare of the marina in lots of small, yet significant ways and have trouble understanding why any marina would willingly object to having responsible people who conduct themselves within marina standards living in the marina.

I've never lived in a HOA so I'll use my own analogy. When living on a Navy vessel at sea, the berthing areas are VERY close. Nobody cared what color your blanket was or even whether or not you made your rack up as long as the curtains were closed. But you damn well better keep your rack clean because nasty odors and/or junk falling from your rack onto the community deck would earn you a forcibly mandated trip to the showers as your matress was rolled up and the entire contents dumped overboard. Respect your neighbors was the order of the day.
wingNwing and Heinous like this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #62  
Old 10-13-2012
Brewgyver's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 371
Thanks: 6
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brewgyver is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney777 View Post
Answer to BREWGYVER. Well I guess you told me off. Do you want a fist fight ? Or are you just an a--hole ? I have never been in a marina with that many live aboards. You are not worth the time.
Sidney, a fist fight? I don't think there was anything beligerant in my post, and I certainly didn't call you any names. I guess I could have left it unaddressed, but your initial post was the most vociferous in claiming that marinas had no justification for charging a liveaboard fee. I'm certainly not alone here in recognizing that they are entitled to do so. Your post claimed that the justification for such fees was "all BS".

So if anybody that disagrees with you, or tries to point out facts that you might not have considered, they must be looking for a fight, or is "just an a--hole"? If so, then I guess I'm an a--hole.

Let me buy you a drink Sid, I think you need one.
__________________
s/v My Sweet Girl!
Catalina 30 (Mark I)
Atomic 4

Last edited by Brewgyver; 10-13-2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: grammar
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #63  
Old 10-13-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
dreamr is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

I think the posters here are ignoring a HUGE issue. Since cruising from Portland Oregon to San Diego California we have had several issues with "liveaboards" Please understand what I mean by 'liveaboard' are those who are slipped up in a sailboat and NEVER LEAVE. They just sit there, collecting junk, watching the boat fall into disrepair, and getting very protective and agressive about 'their dock'.

Sailors are the most wonderful people I have met so far and I have been travelling the world since my 20s. However liveaboards are usually a problem. Not all of them of course. A liveaboard taught me how to sail, and Larry was a wonderful guy!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #64  
Old 10-13-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
dreamr is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Also the threats of violence always came from a liveaboard..... sounds like a few of those are right here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #65  
Old 10-13-2012
Brewgyver's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 371
Thanks: 6
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brewgyver is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Sidney, I did not "ATTACK" you, I merely pointed out that marinas DO incur increased expenses from liveaboards. If you read all of this thread, you'll see examples of others having a difference of opinion, and responding to each other, without getting bent out of shape, or feeling that they are being "attacked".
wingNwing likes this.
__________________
s/v My Sweet Girl!
Catalina 30 (Mark I)
Atomic 4
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #66  
Old 10-13-2012
wingNwing's Avatar
formerly posting as eryka
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: aboard s/v Cinderella
Posts: 1,123
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 7
wingNwing is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamr View Post
I think the posters here are ignoring a HUGE issue. Since cruising from Portland Oregon to San Diego California we have had several issues with "liveaboards" Please understand what I mean by 'liveaboard' are those who are slipped up in a sailboat and NEVER LEAVE. They just sit there, collecting junk, watching the boat fall into disrepair, and getting very protective and agressive about 'their dock'.

Sailors are the most wonderful people I have met so far and I have been travelling the world since my 20s. However liveaboards are usually a problem. Not all of them of course. A liveaboard taught me how to sail, and Larry was a wonderful guy!
Agression and junk collecting are bad marina behavior, certainly. But, they are bad behavior in anyone. I don't see the connection to living aboard and strongly disagree with your "liveaboards are usually a problem." Usually? The marina is our only home, and as such we take much better care of it than those who have "real" houses to go to and spend energy on.

So what if they never leave? We know lots of people whose houses and jobs are nearby the marina, they keep their boats here for years and years and never leave either.
Brewgyver likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cinderella, CSY 33, Photo by Joe McCary

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. - Sidney J. Harris


Shameless self-promotion - my blog for the Annapolis Capital newspaper:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
still has some glitches to be worked out. Until then, I'm posting at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
! And a new project:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #67  
Old 10-13-2012
wingNwing's Avatar
formerly posting as eryka
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: aboard s/v Cinderella
Posts: 1,123
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 7
wingNwing is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
This has been an interesting thread to follow in that there were many more perspectives shared than I have considered. I'm not sure how my question will fit in to the discussion but I'll ask anyway. How does living aboard on a mooring fit into all this? Is it allowed or overlooked? Does marina management tend to take a different view and do limitations such as those cited in California apply? I ask this because the discussion has focused almost entirely on being tied to a dock. Surely there are those that live on moorings also.
Many of the marinas we've stayed in have offered anchored or moored boats the option to land their dinghies here, take advantage of shoreside services like laundry and bathhouse and internet lounge, for a nominal fee, $10 per dinghy per day on the days they use it, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Of course, long term anchored/moored boats need to have some provision for pumpout and waste removal. The issues I've seen between marinas and anchored boats tend to be related to pollution, improper anchoring (either dragging into boats in slips, or anchoring so close that those boats can't safely leave), or noise (generators or music either loud or at inconsiderate hours), or trying to game the system by sneaking in and not paying. But those are bad behavior regardless, whether someone's a liveaboard or not, on land or on water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
For the relatively short period that I owned my first boat there was a short period, when my jobsite was closer to the boat than home, where I lived on my boat 5-7 days a week. I absolutely loved it. There were no additional charges incurred by me. I did use more water and electricity while onboard. The water was free, the electricity metered, but on the other hand I did make more purchases such as ice and snacks. The marina owner also commented that he noticed much less loitering from campers in a nearby campground at night while I was there and I felt like I contributed to the security of the place in some small way. Since I was tied to the other side of the fuel dock, there were several instances that I assisted powerboaters in tying up to fuel when the help hadn't arrived yet (small marina).
Sounds like someone who's an asset to the marina community. I'm not surprised that the owner appreciated having you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
Based on my own limited experience, I can understand a small, reasonable fee for liveaboards and I can understand a marina wanting to maintain certain standards. I also think that responsible liveaboards contribute to the welfare of the marina in lots of small, yet significant ways and have trouble understanding why any marina would willingly object to having responsible people who conduct themselves within marina standards living in the marina.

I've never lived in a HOA so I'll use my own analogy. When living on a Navy vessel at sea, the berthing areas are VERY close. Nobody cared what color your blanket was or even whether or not you made your rack up as long as the curtains were closed. But you damn well better keep your rack clean because nasty odors and/or junk falling from your rack onto the community deck would earn you a forcibly mandated trip to the showers as your matress was rolled up and the entire contents dumped overboard. Respect your neighbors was the order of the day.
With you there - consideration, thinking about the effect your actions have on those around you, make for good relations. Isn't this the stuff we learned in kindergarden?
Dean101 likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cinderella, CSY 33, Photo by Joe McCary

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. - Sidney J. Harris


Shameless self-promotion - my blog for the Annapolis Capital newspaper:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
still has some glitches to be worked out. Until then, I'm posting at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
! And a new project:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #68  
Old 10-13-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,191
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
This has been an interesting thread to follow in that there were many more perspectives shared than I have considered. I'm not sure how my question will fit in to the discussion but I'll ask anyway. How does living aboard on a mooring fit into all this? Is it allowed or overlooked? .....
To live in a mooring in public waters is far worse than to live in a marina. A marina is not public, you pay for it, a mooring is in public waters. If you are occupying permanently one space you are preventing all others from using a space that belong to all. In Europe in most places they will only allow sailors to be there for a short amount of time (in some places one day) and it is fair, it is the way to warranty that all can enjoy that place.

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #69  
Old 10-13-2012
Dean101's Avatar
Life is a wild ride!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 396
Thanks: 6
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Dean101 is on a distinguished road
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
Many of the marinas we've stayed in have offered anchored or moored boats the option to land their dinghies here, take advantage of shoreside services like laundry and bathhouse and internet lounge, for a nominal fee, $10 per dinghy per day on the days they use it, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Of course, long term anchored/moored boats need to have some provision for pumpout and waste removal. The issues I've seen between marinas and anchored boats tend to be related to pollution, improper anchoring (either dragging into boats in slips, or anchoring so close that those boats can't safely leave), or noise (generators or music either loud or at inconsiderate hours), or trying to game the system by sneaking in and not paying. But those are bad behavior regardless, whether someone's a liveaboard or not, on land or on water.




Sounds like someone who's an asset to the marina community. I'm not surprised that the owner appreciated having you there.



With you there - consideration, thinking about the effect your actions have on those around you, make for good relations. Isn't this the stuff we learned in kindergarden?
Charging a small fee to use the marina facilities sounds fair to me. The marina is a business and must make a profit in order to continue providing all the services that most everyone here appreciates. As far as consideration goes, everyone including the inconsiderate expect it from others. In my opinion, the only way to get it is to give it. I'm sure those drunken revellers appreciate the fact that all the people they kept awake all night don't drop by their boat 3 hours after they pass out and commence a loud discussion about the beauty of the sunrise while having coffee 5 feet from their boat. There is a time and place for everything.

I do understand the frustration some of you must feel with junked up, funky smelling eyesores and those overly possesive of dock space but I think it is the marina managers who need to draw a line in the sand with that sort of behavior. A lot of people have mentioned crazy long waiting lists for slip space. Why put up with that kind of behavior or expect your good paying renters to deal with it when there are so many others waiting in line. Besides, an example or two will send a message that that sort of behavior is not acceptable. There are far better ways to deal with the problem than banning the good with the bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
To live in a mooring in public waters is far worse than to live in a marina. A marina is not public, you pay for it, a mooring is in public waters. If you are occupying permanently one space you are preventing all others from using a space that belong to all. In Europe in most places they will only allow sailors to be there for a short amount of time (in some places one day) and it is fair, it is the way to warranty that all can enjoy that place.

Regards

Paulo
I was under the assumption that some mooring fields were actually owned and managed by the marina near it. I thought that some were public and managed by municipalities, some single moorings, mainly near houses, were privately owned, and some were commercially owned by marinas. I may be totally mistaken in this since I have never stayed on a mooring. I thought that people who payed a monthly fee were assigned a certain mooring and paid the marina that owned it along with any fees to use marina facilities and dinghy docks. My question was directed towards commercially rented moorings rather than public or community type moorings. Are there different types of mooring fields or have I just confused myself into thinking that there are differences?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #70  
Old 10-13-2012
Melrna's Avatar
Crazy Woman Boat Driver
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Bern NC
Posts: 783
Thanks: 16
Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 11
Melrna will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Melrna Send a message via Yahoo to Melrna
Re: Opposition to liveaboards

As a liveaboard in a medium size marnia here is south Florida I have seen it all as portrayed by most commentaries here. We have both ends of the spectrum here; ultra rich to those living on a disability check. While my marina does not have many of the amenities that most marinas further north up the east coast have, it is a comfortable living. I have been up and down the Florida Keys where folks live on derelict boats and to be honest eye sores. But I am not one to judge, knowing that those folks are doing the best they can. We have 5 of those boats here in my marina with folks living below poverty income. They are all nice folks. My biggest objection is when those boats are towed out to be abandon in Marine Stadium Bay for the authorities to take care of. There are 3 such boats now out there.
We do provide a service to the marina we live on. The biggest one is security. Even though there are camera's everywhere we have stopped a few thefts over the years I have been here. Second is a set of eyes on the infrastructure of the marina itself. We bring the problems like water breaks, electrical outages, dock repairs and others that would cost the owners of both the marina and boat owners many dollars if not correct early. Also, we watch all the boats especially those around us for problems, like docklines breaking, not tied right, bilge pump running constantly avoiding a boat sinking, AC pump running dry due to blockage and many other problems. We are good neighbors worth our weight in gold.
As far as consuming more resources I don't fully agree. Here in my marina the owners here use more water and electricity than me. In the water department, they get their boat washed every week, run their AC at 65 degrees 24/7, and leave their trash where it doesn't belong. They don't live here hence they don't take care of the facilities like liveaboards do.
Liveaboard is a lifestyle done by choice. No one is holding a gun to our heads to live like we do. We live our dream how most land folks live theirs. It can be a difficult one at times especially when mother nature decides to not be nice or the constant maintenance that is required to maintain our boats.
Marina charges are what the market can bear. It is a Republic Capitalist Society defined by the constitution. If we don't like what they charge, we are lucky we can move, sell the boat or just pay the fee. Some marina owners like us and see the benefit we bring, while others don't. It is their choice not mine. Just like gated communities with HOA rules one has a choice to live there or not. Same with marinas.
wingNwing and LoboPops like this.
__________________
Melissa Renee
Moondance
Catalina 445, Hull #90

Last edited by Melrna; 10-13-2012 at 06:23 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bangladesh denies bail to 33 opposition leaders - KFVS NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-16-2012 07:40 AM
WNC Mustangs face tough opposition in Champions League (Sun Star) NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-26-2006 02:15 PM
School plan sailing, for now Little opposition yet to idea of new elementary center (Scranton Times-Tribune) NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-29-2006 04:15 AM
Re: Outer Brewster Island LNG site faces Park Service opposition NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 05-21-2006 07:25 AM
Outer Brewster Island LNG site faces Park Service opposition NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 05-19-2006 08:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:22 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.