Opposition to liveaboards - Page 8 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #71  
Old 10-13-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
To live in a mooring in public waters is far worse than to live in a marina. A marina is not public, you pay for it, a mooring is in public waters. If you are occupying permanently one space you are preventing all others from using a space that belong to all. In Europe in most places they will only allow sailors to be there for a short amount of time (in some places one day) and it is fair, it is the way to warranty that all can enjoy that place.

Regards

Paulo
Not so sure you are right here Paulo. Most of the mooring fields that are by marina's are owned either by government, the marina owners or the yacht club. For the most part they are not in public waters per se. There are very few mooring balls owned by owners that just put down a mooring ball where they want to in public waters. It just depends on what the government allows here. It is a very controversial topic here on the east coast right now with states trying to trump Federal laws on free anchoring rights.
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  #72  
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
Agression and junk collecting are bad marina behavior, certainly. But, they are bad behavior in anyone. I don't see the connection to living aboard and strongly disagree with your "liveaboards are usually a problem." Usually? The marina is our only home, and as such we take much better care of it than those who have "real" houses to go to and spend energy on.

So what if they never leave? We know lots of people whose houses and jobs are nearby the marina, they keep their boats here for years and years and never leave either.
I can give my experience so far, and I have had discussions about this topic all the way down from portland to now, Ensenada. Cry if you like. If my description doesn't pertain to you directly, then why does it bother you anyway? If you said all white people are scum, or dudes are assholes, I wouldn't be personally bothered, although I am white and male.
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  #73  
Old 10-13-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
...

I was under the assumption that some mooring fields were actually owned and managed by the marina near it. I thought that some were public and managed by municipalities, some single moorings, mainly near houses, were privately owned, and some were commercially owned by marinas. I may be totally mistaken in this since I have never stayed on a mooring. I thought that people who payed a monthly fee were assigned a certain mooring and paid the marina that owned it along with any fees to use marina facilities and dinghy docks. My question was directed towards commercially rented moorings rather than public or community type moorings. Are there different types of mooring fields or have I just confused myself into thinking that there are differences?
I don't know how things are there but here the coastal waters are public. The authorities can give a permit to and individual or a club for installing and managing a buoy camp. That permission is always temporary and does not give any property rights except temporary ones regarding the service. A buoy camp provides a service different from the one a marina provides. It is not meant to have permanently boats on mooring but to provide a safe place for cruising boats on passage or for some nice days in a nice place.

They exist as a way of protecting the bottom from anchors in natural reserves or protected places, as a way to provide mooring places on nice sheltered places were the deep is to high to anchor or inappropriate to anchors or in nice protected places as a way to increase the number of cruising boats that will have a place there.

They provide a service that is of public interest and that's why the authorities have given the concession for them anyway.

Having boats permanently on them will go against the reason they where created. I know that in some places there are some that are used as permanent mooring places, mostly for small boats. In my opinion they should not be allowed. If we allow that in little time we will have all protected areas full of permanent moorings (in public waters) and that will not permit all other cruisers to enjoy nice sheltered places on a temporary basis, I mean while cruising.

Best regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-13-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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  #74  
Old 10-13-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
Not so sure you are right here Paulo. Most of the mooring fields that are by marina's are owned either by government, the marina owners or the yacht club. For the most part they are not in public waters per se. There are very few mooring balls owned by owners that just put down a mooring ball where they want to in public waters. It just depends on what the government allows here. It is a very controversial topic here on the east coast right now with states trying to trump Federal laws on free anchoring rights.
Melrna, anchoring rights is one thing, moorings owned by owners that just put down a mooring buoy are another. In my opinion the last one should not be allowed at all and the same with anchoring permanently or for large periods on one place. I explained why on my last post.

Of course if we are talking about moorings not in a natural shelter but inside a port or marina, that's another story but it makes not much sense to have that. It is just not an economical way to maximize the number of places available.

Regards

Paulo
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  #75  
Old 10-13-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

wingnwing- in reply to your last post about what I tried to post- yea, you pretty much said what I was trying to say when you said only clearer, OK?
And , on the Annapolis thing, I hope to stop in (spa creek anchoring still cool?)
I want to get a real mainsail, hopefully at bacon or one of te other places I've heard of,never been to .
I'm not much of a beer guy but we stock a pretty interesting wine stock- homemeade by the Master Shoemaker I apprenticed for. interesting stuff!
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  #76  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Joe - Spa Creek still okay, they're discouraging anchoring just off the Naval Academy seawall but the south side of the mouth there is still fine (though IMHO neither of these is a great anchorage, too exposed to weather from the S and SE.) Further up Spa is more sheltered and no issues. Back Creek is fine anywhere except within 75 ft of a marina structure (not really enforced, unless you're egregiously close). Weems Creek, the Navy moorings are free and very secure. All city streets that end at the water are still free dinghy landings.

It was pretty chilly here last night! Season is definitely changing.
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  #77  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
......Back Creek is fine anywhere except within 75 ft of a marina structure (not really enforced, unless you're egregiously close).
Anyone, so naive about their anchor, that would go to sleep a couple of boat lengths from several million dollars of docks and boats, needs their head examined anyway.

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It was pretty chilly here last night! Season is definitely changing.
Amen. I'm aboard in RI and it was low 40s last night. Sadly, I'm beginning winterizing.
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Last edited by Minnewaska; 10-14-2012 at 09:46 PM.
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  #78  
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Thanks wingnwing - we've anchored in spa creek before near the park w/ success (long dingy ride) . And I try not to get near any docks and such out of common courtesy. Also our 3 1/2' draft allows us alot of options. Of course if it get's or is looking to get nasty weather wise , a mooring is always an option.
thanks for the info.
what can you tel me about finding a decent pre-enjoyed mainsail ? I hear there are a couple places in Annapolis but have never been to any of them.
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  #79  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Joe,

Try Bacons in Annapolis. They have an extensive selection of used sails. Lots of other pretended equipment there also. I can spend hours there.

Dave
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  #80  
Old 10-15-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

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Originally Posted by Melrna View Post
I have been up and down the Florida Keys where folks live on derelict boats and to be honest eye sores. But I am not one to judge, knowing that those folks are doing the best they can. We have 5 of those boats here in my marina with folks living below poverty income. They are all nice folks.

Many times these days you find those type people still find enough money to smoke cigarettes, drink beer and play lottery or go to the casino. They probably still have a smart phone and flat screen TV.

It's rare in the USA to find a truly broke person. If you want to see real poverty you should travel to Africa or Haiti.

Also it doesn't take much money to keep your boat clean and well organized. Maybe it takes a non-lazy person to carry the trash to the dumpster but not much cash.
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