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Sundownsailing 12-09-2012 10:25 AM

Water Filteration
 
We are currently re-fitting our Hans Christian 33t and are looking for feed back on water filtration. I would like to install one inline that will be for the whole boat prior to the hot water side.
Any experience or wisdom on this subject would be appreciated.

Minnewaska 12-09-2012 03:55 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
We carry one of these and attach it to whatever dockside hose we fill from. Presumably, you could get some brass fittings to install it under a sink as well, but I think its better to manage the water coming in.


guitarguy56 12-09-2012 04:27 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
I go to Walmart for these filters... they come in a twin pack and are relatively inexpensive... I always keep a twin pack on spare... ;)

Can't post the link but it is a CAMCO brand water filter... search for it in the RV supplies section of Walmart.

svHyLyte 12-10-2012 10:25 AM

Re: Water Filteration
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundownsailing (Post 959006)
We are currently re-fitting our Hans Christian 33t and are looking for feed back on water filtration. I would like to install one inline that will be for the whole boat prior to the hot water side.
Any experience or wisdom on this subject would be appreciated.

Water needs be filtered before it hits your tank(s) as well as afterward. We carry a canister type 5 micron water filter with hose fittings that we can attach to a shore side hose before filling our tanks (the amount of crud that collects in this is quite amazing). Within the yacht, we have a Pentek 2 micron activated charcoal water filter on the discharge side of our pressure pump before it splits to the hot and cold water sides and then finally, a General Ecology Seagull Filter, again with activated charcoal, under the galley sink with a spout for drinking water only. The only really costly (relatively) part of this system is the Seagull filter but it is worth it to have really pure drinking water (that is also used to mix up GatorAid and Low Fat Milk from dried). If your water will sit in your tanks very long, add a little bit of unscented bleach as a purifier. We also use a product known as Aquabon as a purifier/treatment that seems to be pretty effective.

FWIW...

RichH 12-10-2012 01:27 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
The simplicity of an effective on board water system is: CLEAN

Seasonally, you really should inspect for the growth of bacterial slimes, etc. growing on tank walls, etc. and if present you really should/have to mechanically scrub them away, followed by shock sanitization with simple Clorox (@ 40 oz per 100 gallons at 1-2 hour 'soak time') then thorough rinse. When you reach inside the tank on your yearly inspection and your finger finds 'slimey' when touching the tank walls .... thats a bacterial slime and should be scrubbed away. If you have insufficient access to the tank internal for cleaning/scrubbing, then I recommend SEVERAL and repeated 'shock sanitizations' with 'clorox, etc'.
If the tank is aluminum (aluminum reacts with chlorine to form aluminum chloride) then very diluted clorox FAST rinses ... and hope for the best.

Simple hygienic 'cleanliness', same as you would apply to that jug of water you haul around, it the simplest approach. Think 'kosher' or more correctly 'parve' which translates to 'clean'.

Filters - do the bulk of filtering BEFORE the water is in the tank.
• Dockside hose - apply screw-on filter of at least (in the USA) that is 'certified for the removal of oocysts'; or, at least 1.2΅M at 99.9% removal efficiency ... or 'something similar' on the filter packaging. This will remove most all the harmful protozoa, etc. that 'can be' present in municipal water systems and that are immune to chlorine sanitization. Obviously this level of filtration will remove most 'visible particulate'.

•Carbon packed 'filter' (add downstream of the dockside filter). Its job is to remove dissolved organics and inorganics ('taste', etc.). Run this filter as SLOW AS POSSIBLE as this is an adsorption process and 'contact time' of the water,etc. TO the carbon is important in the efficacy of removal. DRAIN and shake out all the water when finished 'filtering', store this filter 'dry'.

• Dockside Hose - 'certified for use with POTABLE water' - ONLY. Less PVC fragments and leachables (taste and nervous system 'destroyers') that way.

System inspection and maintenance.
• Yearly clean out and shock sanitize, mechanical scrubbing if needed to remove 'slimes'.
Shock Sanitization dosage: 40 oz. of grocery store Clorox per 100 gallons of water - let soak 1-2 hours then dump, then rinse and dump again.
• Change out / replace ANY (clear) hose, etc. component that has become 'dirty looking' ... clear plastic hose when 'penetrated by fungals, etc.' will look 'grimey'. Look for hose that is "certified compatible for POTABLE water" - your brain and neuro-tissue will thank you.
• Start out with a total replacement of the entire VENT line .... replace with reinforced clear water hose, etc. .... and then put a FILTER on or near the end closest to 'outside', etc. to prevent the aspiration of molds, mildews and airborne bacteria. Can be as simple as taking a fist size 'wad' of absorbent 'first aid cotton', taping to the 'end' and then covering with 'bandage gauze'. Keep dry and replace yearly.
• Maintenance dose of 'clorox' to attenuate 'biological growth':
Standard dosage: 4oz. of grocery store clorox per 100 gallons of water
Best dosage: Have your WIFE smell the water as it comes out a spigot, you want her to discern the 'barest possible hint' of chlorine in the effluent water. If no 'hint', then add clorox until she can discern the 'hint'. If more than a 'barest hint', dilute the tank with MORE water.
• NO chlorine added to aluminum tanks .... youll eventually 'burn a hole' in
the tank.
• Fiberglass water tanks ... remove/replace, certainly dont DRINK the stuff - PERIOD.
• On board filters. Not really necessary if you did all the preliminary filtering and cleaning and 'dosing'. If the tank water then develops a 'taste' then you have some component that is leaching chemicals ... find it and get rid of/replace it.
• On board filters -
I'd avoid 'carbon filters' under the sink for several reasons:
a. will remove and adsorb any 'chlorine' that is used to 'maintenance dose sanitize' the tank water .... even if the water is NOT flowing through the filter.
b. will 'concentrate' any bacteria, etc. that it 'captures'
c. the carbon can become a potent nutrient source for bacteria and other microorganisms
• Take on board only the amount of water that you're going to use within a reasonable time. The less amount of stagnant water left in a tank, the less 'biological growth'.

hope this helps.

guitarguy56 12-10-2012 01:58 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
Nice write up Rich... I use the filter to fill up my tanks and then use carbon filters for washing dishes and general water use and not for drinking or cooking... I use bottled or ozonated and filtered water for drinking and cooking so these are brought onboard... I have fresh water hookup on my boat when docked so the water is 'city water' quality but I still use the in-line filters I posted as safe bets to remove particulates and residue for general uses... I've never had any issues and the water is really drinkable but I'd rather have bottled water to drink and cook with. ;)

wind_magic 12-10-2012 03:54 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
I use different grades of water.

From "best" (most potable) to worst ...

- Distilled water, that I distilled myself, I know its good. Use this for drinking when sick with some kind of stomach ailment to make sure it isn't some of the lower grade water that is causing the problem.
- Bottled distilled water, for keeping water in the batteries.
- Bottled spring water, for drinking.
- Tap water, this is water I have in containers that I got from the tap somewhere that I believe to be clean, not filtered. I'd put water from other people's water makers in this category if they made it from ocean water. Good for cooking, drinking.
- Spring water, this is water that comes from a fresh water source such as a creek where I know it is clean because I know where it originates, would use in preparing food. Rain water is in this category. Filter this, good for cooking, drinking.
- Old water, this is high grade water that was stored for a long time in containers, or left in the sun, and may have a bit of a bland or plastic taste to it and might not be that good for you in large quantities. Tastes flat or tastes bad in some way but there is no reason to suspect it is dangerous.
- Boiled water, Fresh water (below) that has been filtered and boiled.
- Fresh water, this is water from a stream or other fresh water source that is fresh (not saline) but could be runoff from a cow field for all I know, talking basic river water here, or tap water in foreign countries with questionable treatment. Can be used in the pressure canner (outside the jars, not inside), but I wouldn't drink it or cook with it. Good for washing clothes, taking showers, etc. Less inclined to distill this, would rather distill "cleaner" water from the ocean.
- Salt water, water out of the ocean. Good for washing the boat, washing mud from the anchor, cleaning things but some things need a fresh water rinse. Prefer this water for any use that it is good for to save the fresh water for something else. Can be distilled.

I don't keep water in a single tank, I keep it in smaller containers. The only water I would filter is the water I called "spring water" or "fresh water" above. I can see why people with large tanks would also filter tap water, but I don't bother.

Water is like a fine wine, "Miami Lightly Chlorinated Tap 2008", "Walmart distilled 2012", or maybe "S/V Spirit's Watermaker 2011". :)

miatapaul 12-10-2012 04:10 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichH (Post 959477)
The simplicity of an effective on board water system is: CLEAN

Seasonally, you really should inspect for the growth of bacterial slimes, etc. growing on tank walls, etc. and if present you really should/have to mechanically scrub them away, followed by shock sanitization with simple Clorox (@ 40 oz per 100 gallons at 1-2 hour 'soak time') then thorough rinse. When you reach inside the tank on your yearly inspection and your finger finds 'slimey' when touching the tank walls .... thats a bacterial slime and should be scrubbed away. If you have insufficient access to the tank internal for cleaning/scrubbing, then I recommend SEVERAL and repeated 'shock sanitizations' with 'clorox, etc'.
If the tank is aluminum (aluminum reacts with chlorine to form aluminum chloride) then very diluted clorox FAST rinses ... and hope for the best.

Simple hygienic 'cleanliness', same as you would apply to that jug of water you haul around, it the simplest approach. Think 'kosher' or more correctly 'parve' which translates to 'clean'.

Filters - do the bulk of filtering BEFORE the water is in the tank.
• Dockside hose - apply screw-on filter of at least (in the USA) that is 'certified for the removal of oocysts'; or, at least 1.2΅M at 99.9% removal efficiency ... or 'something similar' on the filter packaging. This will remove most all the harmful protozoa, etc. that 'can be' present in municipal water systems and that are immune to chlorine sanitization. Obviously this level of filtration will remove most 'visible particulate'.

•Carbon packed 'filter' (add downstream of the dockside filter). Its job is to remove dissolved organics and inorganics ('taste', etc.). Run this filter as SLOW AS POSSIBLE as this is an adsorption process and 'contact time' of the water,etc. TO the carbon is important in the efficacy of removal. DRAIN and shake out all the water when finished 'filtering', store this filter 'dry'.

• Dockside Hose - 'certified for use with POTABLE water' - ONLY. Less PVC fragments and leachables (taste and nervous system 'destroyers') that way.

System inspection and maintenance.
• Yearly clean out and shock sanitize, mechanical scrubbing if needed to remove 'slimes'.
Shock Sanitization dosage: 40 oz. of grocery store Clorox per 100 gallons of water - let soak 1-2 hours then dump, then rinse and dump again.
• Change out / replace ANY (clear) hose, etc. component that has become 'dirty looking' ... clear plastic hose when 'penetrated by fungals, etc.' will look 'grimey'. Look for hose that is "certified compatible for POTABLE water" - your brain and neuro-tissue will thank you.
• Start out with a total replacement of the entire VENT line .... replace with reinforced clear water hose, etc. .... and then put a FILTER on or near the end closest to 'outside', etc. to prevent the aspiration of molds, mildews and airborne bacteria. Can be as simple as taking a fist size 'wad' of absorbent 'first aid cotton', taping to the 'end' and then covering with 'bandage gauze'. Keep dry and replace yearly.
• Maintenance dose of 'clorox' to attenuate 'biological growth':
Standard dosage: 4oz. of grocery store clorox per 100 gallons of water
Best dosage: Have your WIFE smell the water as it comes out a spigot, you want her to discern the 'barest possible hint' of chlorine in the effluent water. If no 'hint', then add clorox until she can discern the 'hint'. If more than a 'barest hint', dilute the tank with MORE water.
• NO chlorine added to aluminum tanks .... youll eventually 'burn a hole' in
the tank.
• Fiberglass water tanks ... remove/replace, certainly dont DRINK the stuff - PERIOD.
• On board filters. Not really necessary if you did all the preliminary filtering and cleaning and 'dosing'. If the tank water then develops a 'taste' then you have some component that is leaching chemicals ... find it and get rid of/replace it.
• On board filters -
I'd avoid 'carbon filters' under the sink for several reasons:
a. will remove and adsorb any 'chlorine' that is used to 'maintenance dose sanitize' the tank water .... even if the water is NOT flowing through the filter.
b. will 'concentrate' any bacteria, etc. that it 'captures'
c. the carbon can become a potent nutrient source for bacteria and other microorganisms
• Take on board only the amount of water that you're going to use within a reasonable time. The less amount of stagnant water left in a tank, the less 'biological growth'.

hope this helps.

I would add too that you should use Clorox and not generic/store brand/dollar store bleach, as the cheaper stuff is often of unknown strength. One of the ways they make it cheaper often is to just dilute it.

guitarguy56 12-10-2012 04:35 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
I don't trust chlorine in my drinking water, tanks, or anywhere else... it belongs in pools and for bleaching white clothes only! I myself would NEVER put any chlorine tablets or chlorine drops of any kind into my fresh water holding tanks... I flush them out frequently with filtered fresh water and have never had the slime or bacterial growth... as long as the incoming water supply is filtered of any particulates and most of the phosphates (food for bacteria and slime) there will be no algal slime or nasties... been doing this for marine aquariums most my life... only other pure water supply is reverse osmosis and that is not doable on our boats... huge energy/water waste... Chlorine is really not good for your health as I said... can't post the link due to my posting privilage but here is a good read:

internethealthlibrary DOT com/Environmental-Health/Chlorine-and-cancer DOT htm

miatapaul 12-10-2012 05:43 PM

Re: Water Filteration
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarguy56 (Post 959577)
I don't trust chlorine in my drinking water, tanks, or anywhere else... it belongs in pools and for bleaching white clothes only! I myself would NEVER put any chlorine tablets or chlorine drops of any kind into my fresh water holding tanks... I flush them out frequently with filtered fresh water and have never had the slime or bacterial growth... as long as the incoming water supply is filtered of any particulates and most of the phosphates (food for bacteria and slime) there will be no algal slime or nasties... been doing this for marine aquariums most my life... only other pure water supply is reverse osmosis and that is not doable on our boats... huge energy/water waste... Chlorine is really not good for your health as I said... can't post the link due to my posting privilage but here is a good read:

internethealthlibrary DOT com/Environmental-Health/Chlorine-and-cancer DOT htm


I agree that Chlorine in the above dilutions is not healthy for drinking, but for cleaning and sanitizing it is not harmful. I think there are very few public water sources that will not contain chlorine.


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