Venture 17 restoration - Page 10 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > MacGregor
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #91  
Old 03-31-2009
ScottFernandes's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ScottFernandes is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatfendershop View Post
What are you doing to strip your paint, sanding and scraping or are you using chemical?

no chemicals, just mechanical work. i used a combo of 40 grit flap disks, and course grinding disks on a 4.5" angle grinder for the flatter surfaces. in the corners i used a combination of an abrasive stripping wheel, and a small course wire brush wheel in a drill. the flap discs are the favorite, no doubt.

the wire brush wheel is the kind with the wire strands parallel to the axis of the drill rotation... so if you point the drill at the work, the ends of the wires are pointing at the work... this tool takes down fiberglass surprisingly fast... in fact, i used it to drill into the corners where the v-berth bulkhead, keel trunk and hull meet ... found good size cavities there that were holding water from my prior week's degreasing job... was able to drill/dry/clean those out and get them ready for epoxy. in additon, i'm planning to reinforce the entire bilge area surrounding the keel trunk and cockpit drain trunk, and this tool was perfect for grinding out a nice fillet between the bulkhead, hull and trunks... good $4 investment.

and PS:
it probably goes without saying, but if you go this route, don't skimp on a good respirator and goggles... i totalled about 20 hard hours of laying in the tunnel of dust, and you don't want to be walking around with that stuff inside you. make sure the respirator fits well. ear plugs wouldn't be a bad idea either... for you or your neighbors!
__________________
V17 #1267
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #92  
Old 03-31-2009
ScottFernandes's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ScottFernandes is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatfendershop View Post
got my deck and hull put back together and sealed with 3M 4200. Wow, that stuff is gooey!
i've been planning on epoxying my hull-deck joint- any thoughts?

reasons it's a bad idea?
__________________
V17 #1267
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #93  
Old 03-31-2009
Joevacs's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 157
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Joevacs is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFernandes View Post
i've been planning on epoxying my hull-deck joint- any thoughts?

reasons it's a bad idea?
I would use 3M-5200 or 4200, and bolt it back together. If you epoxy it, and miss something or want to modify something, or who knows what..., There's no going back. Besides, you would probably still need the bolts for strength, not to mention keeping the rub rail attached. 3m 5200 or 4200 is not going to let you down, and you have the option for ....... whatever might come up down the road.
Have you ever wondered why, not even the best boats are built as one piece?
I have. I'm not saying there's not a good arguement for epoxying it together, I just can't think of one. If there was no other way to seal it effectively, that would be a good reason, but that's not the case.
__________________
Macgregor, Venture 17 ,#998
Hickory, NC
Proud to be American !
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #94  
Old 03-31-2009
ScottFernandes's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ScottFernandes is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joevacs View Post
Have you ever wondered why, not even the best boats are built as one piece?
I have. I'm not saying there's not a good arguement for epoxying it together, I just can't think of one. If there was no other way to seal it effectively, that would be a good reason, but that's not the case.
thanks Joe, and i hear you... it'd definitely be less risky/stressful.

there are a couple reasons i've been leaning toward epoxy: full cure and strength.

first, the poor fit of the deck to the hull in my boat, especially at the stern corners where there is quite a span to be filled, means i'll be filling to a much greater depth than the 1/8" recommended by 3M for full cure of 42/5200... and that's the crux i guess... don't want to stretch the applicability threshold of the material just because it's easy... if the material stays soft over the long term due to non-cure, then you've got a situation where there's no adhesive qualities, and you've just got high-priced, uncured caulk spanning a greater distance than it was designed to... and in this condition does it seal around the rubrail fasteners adequately? of course, if the joint had a nice tight tolerance where you could get the rims of the deck and hull to meet firmly around the whole joint, then it'd be a no-brainer.

secondly, from what i've read, i figured a quality epoxy will make the joint, properly prepared of course, the strongest it could possibly be- with tensile strength of the epoxy adhesion in the neighborhood of 2000psi, the shear strength even greater, the original deck or hull layup would probably give before the joint... and that's before the rubrail bolts even get stressed. the tentative plan is to use west system with the high-density filler.

and oh yeah, no matter how i join it, i'm never, ever, ever, separating this boat again... i'll be moving up to another boat before that urge strikes.

as far as why boats aren't made as one piece, i've always taken that as more of a practicality/cost of construction rather than a design enhancement issue.

good article: (sorry wouldn't link properly)

practical-sailor.com/newspics/charts/893deckleaks.pdf
__________________
V17 #1267

Last edited by ScottFernandes; 03-31-2009 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #95  
Old 03-31-2009
Joevacs's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 157
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Joevacs is on a distinguished road
Sounds logical to me. ( although, I try not to say "never",... notice, I didn't say, "I never say never" )
West System with Micro baloons is what I used on my new forward deck. You can mix it as thick as you need for applications like you're talking about.

You could also just use expanding foam, you know "Great Stuff" !
Just kidding...
__________________
Macgregor, Venture 17 ,#998
Hickory, NC
Proud to be American !
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #96  
Old 03-31-2009
ScottFernandes's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ScottFernandes is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joevacs View Post
West System with Micro baloons is what I used on my new forward deck. You can mix it as thick as you need for applications like you're talking about.

You could also just use expanding foam, you know "Great Stuff" !
Just kidding...
thanks, i'll look at the microballoons... and hey, about the magic foam... i'm willing to keep an open mind at this point.
__________________
V17 #1267
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #97  
Old 03-31-2009
Joevacs's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 157
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Joevacs is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFernandes View Post
thanks, i'll look at the microballoons... and hey, about the magic foam... i'm willing to keep an open mind at this point.
I have actually used it in a canoe in the end caps for flotation. But I think that's probably the extent of what it's good for on a boat.
__________________
Macgregor, Venture 17 ,#998
Hickory, NC
Proud to be American !
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #98  
Old 04-02-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
kreed17er is on a distinguished road
Hey Guys,

I just bought the mac 17 from kolederacer and am wondering how difficult it is to separate the hull and deck? Not only that but how difficult it would be to put back together. Any ideas? I figure that it would be alot easier to sand and paint if the pieces are separated. Oh, and I will keep everyone updated on the progress as it continues.

Keith
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #99  
Old 04-02-2009
Joevacs's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 157
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Joevacs is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kreed17er View Post
Hey Guys,

I just bought the mac 17 from kolederacer and am wondering how difficult it is to separate the hull and deck? Not only that but how difficult it would be to put back together. Any ideas? I figure that it would be alot easier to sand and paint if the pieces are separated. Oh, and I will keep everyone updated on the progress as it continues.

Keith
Hey Keith,
Glad to see ya on here. It's not that bad. If you have a garage or building that you can use to lift straight up I think it would be easier. That's what I did. I noticed some other good ingenuity on here too by Scott of using jacks and blocks. I needed to rebuild my fore deck and it was much easier to work on the inside while it was upside down. Putting it back on is the hardest part, but if you have a couple of helpers, it's not that bad either. Good luck. I look forward to seeing the progress.
__________________
Macgregor, Venture 17 ,#998
Hickory, NC
Proud to be American !
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #100  
Old 04-02-2009
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Flatfendershop is on a distinguished road
Scott, I just put my deck back on the hull and used 3M 4200 fast cure (2 hours to skin, 24 hours to cure). I was going to use 5200, but on the advice of the guys at 3M I went 4200. This is because the joint is held mechanically with the bolts, all you need to do is seal it. I also thought about the fiberglass route but went the other way. It took my daughter and I a day to get it back together. I too had a couple of wide gaps at each rear corner and at the very point of the bow. Filling these with the 4200 was no problem, no sag. Now a week of chilly weather later it is fully cured, I really think its a fine way to go. There are a couple of detail areas that I think would be a REAL BUGGER to fiberglass. Now that I've done it, I'm glad I went the way I did.


Hello Keith, welcome to Joe's hijacked vintage Venture thread! Its good since it brought a few of us together. Joe's right about the separation, not a big deal. Just buy new bolts and hope the old ones break as you take them out, its easier. I used lock nuts on mine when I went back together, since several of the originals were loose or missing.

Good luck, stay in touch. Flat.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Venture 21 vs Oday - Opinions Please IslandExpress Boat Review and Purchase Forum 12 08-04-2012 02:46 AM
1971 venture 22 pop top cover swampdonkey65 Gear & Maintenance 1 04-21-2012 07:55 PM
25 MacGregor Venture Handbook nthompson General Discussion (sailing related) 10 01-02-2009 04:30 PM
Mac22 Venture I think 82Venture22 MacGregor 7 04-21-2007 06:56 PM
Inflatable Repair / Restoration (Zodiac, Achilles, Etc.) nauticalnut Gear & Maintenance 3 12-02-2006 02:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:05 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.