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N0NJY 11-10-2008 04:14 PM

1979 Mac Venture 25 STUFF
 
Questions.

Part I

Ok... rudder with the boat was broken some how, snapped off near the bottom pintle. The owner prior to the one I bought it from apparently repaired it and the last owner (of one season) had no real idea that it was broken off - I think. He seemed to be surprised when I pointed it out.

Anyway the repair was accomplished with two heavy pieces of aluminum on either side of the rudder, with a handful of bolts pushed through and apparently some kind of glue on the broken spot.

Other than going out and purchasing a brand new, $900 kick-up rudder - I was thinking of building a new one.

I've read the several threads here, but am still a bit confused about what material. Seems like most suggest some kind of glassing on the wood.

Any other suggestions on what materials could be worked into a good rudder assembly? (I don't want to spend 900 bucks if I don't have to just yet).

I have wood and metal working skills.

Part II:

Rigging.

I've gone over the mast and all the rigging, pulleys and parts. Everything is "in order" (except one pulley system which I will replace).

I've never stepped the mast on ANY boat, let alone this one.

This weekend my wife and I were out looking over how to do it. I don't have ready access to sailors in the area but, I've got the original manuals I downloaded.

Sure looks easy in the manual. One guy walks it back, puts the pin (bolt) through, pulls the forestay forward, puts a bolt in. Easy as pie.

Ummm no.

First off it leans across the poptop (which is down) at a slightly too steep of an angle to get the bottom of the mast into the bracket - where you can pin it.

Second, it's not heavy, but is heavier than it looks. My wife can't raise the mast.

Third...ok, stupid, but if the manual says "one person can do this" - then why can't THIS guy do it who has raised hundreds of masts (for antennas) in a similar manner (but I didn't have things stuck in the way either).

Suggestions?

camaraderie 11-10-2008 06:37 PM

NONJY....typically a gin pole and tackle is used to raise the mast. Here's a picture of one in action on a larger boat. The gin pole provids the leverage you need to raise the mast.
http://www.capehorn.com/sections/M%C...0Dunkerque.jpg
Note that the pole has 4 "lines" coming off it. One is the forestay. Two are run to the chain plates and provide lateral stability as the boat is raised. The fourth line is a block and tackle used to actually do the raising...I used my mainsheet tackle on on my old Catalina 22. The gin pole can be made of metal or wood.
Here's a more detailed link on the process.
http://www.rlyachts.net/tipsNoFearMastStepping.pdf

N0NJY 11-11-2008 03:04 PM

I know what a gin pole is, I've used them before on things like my 30 foot radio tower in the back yard.

My issue with the mast is simpler than just raising it.

It's connecting the mast to the bracket.

When it is walked back aft, it appears to ride too "high" on the cabin hatch and can't be raised enough in the stern of the boat to be able to line up the base of the mast with the bracket assembly on the deck.

In other words, even if I were using a gin pole, I still could not raise the mast up because it would kick out and go forward.

make sense?

N0NJY 11-11-2008 03:09 PM

Oh, and THANKS! for that awesome article :)

I''ve actually got the stuff to put together a good gin pole, just need to take the time to go out into the garage and start putting things together.

Perithead 11-11-2008 09:49 PM

N0NJY,

I think I can help you on this one.

I used to have a Mac 25 a few years ago. I had a very simple and cheap system that allowed me to raise the mast all be myself pretty quickly.

For you first problem, putting the pin through the mast and step, I had a simple 2x4 with a V cut into the top of it. My Mac didn't have that little box in the back of the cockpit to house the fuel tank, if yours does you may have to rig the system slightly differnt. Anyway, I would take the 2x4 that was cut I'd say maybe 4' or so, not sure you can figure that out. I had the 2x4 standing upright at the very back of the cockpit and I had it tied to the sternrail where they touched. Sometimes I would have to have another rope to hold the 2x4 from slipping down.
I would take the mast and set it in the V of the 2x4 and slide the mast back till the hole lined up. (the 2x4 needs to be any height so that it is like someone holding it up for you when you put the pin in now)

That was the first step and got the mast about 1/3 of the way up.

I had another board, a 2x10 with another V cut into the one side of it. I would put the bottom of it in the cabin braced against the bulkhead with the winch in it. I would lean it forward towards the bow of the boat and rest on the sliding hatch when it was all the way opened. I had the 2x10 cut so that when I lifted the mast as high as I could off of the 2x4 while standing on each cockit side seat so that I could just barely set the mast into the V. The reason I used a 2x10 is because I couldnt hold the mast perfectly steady when setting it into it and the 2x10 gave me a little larger target to set the mast into. Also, I would run a line from one lifeline stanchion, around the 2x10 and to the other stanchion, this would prevent the 2x10 from sliding left and right.

Once you get the mast to the 2x10 you are 85% of the way there. Now, just step up onto the cabin top and stand the mast up and push it all the way forward.

I also had a small rope tied to the mast so that I could hold it up while I eased forward toward the bow to attach the stay.

Perithead 11-11-2008 09:58 PM

Oops, forgot to add that you can check the website in my signature and go to the Sailboat Projects page the Modifications and check out the Mac 25 there. It has some decent pitures and descriptions of a mast raising system and some on the rudder.

It might help, but I bet if you looked around the site a little you would find some stuff that would.

N0NJY 11-12-2008 09:53 AM

Thanks!

I've got the hardware to do a gin pole and I'll look at something that will allow me to brace the mast properly that won't be too big, bulky and is easy to stow.

N0NJY 11-24-2008 11:20 AM

Perithead,

Thanks for the information from those notes you made.

I did do something like that.

I still need to actually build something for the stern of the boat to pull the mast up on, probably some sort of pole, using the rudder mounting with a roller device.

In the mean time, I took your advice and I used a 1 by 12 board that is 8 feet long.

I used that because 1) it was the correctly length, 2) I could put a notch into the wood that was the right size for the mast, and 3) the mast won't fall OUT of it (like it would off a 2X4).

I simply bungee corded the board in place into the cockpit and the easily walked the mast up onto the board.

I was able then to connect the bolt holding the mast to the housing. Worked good!

Anyway, over the course of the last couple of weeks, I worked out a gin pole.

I took a metal pole that is about 1/3rd the length of the mast, too a U-shaped mounting bracket and mounted it to the base of the mast at the pivot point.

Next I drilled holes through the pole for a pin-bolt and attached that.

Then I put a U-bolt on the end of the pole where I connected a block - a double pulley.

On the U bolt I set up a bridle of sorts to keep the gin pole pulling straight.

At the bow of the boat I put the other 2-pulley block and finally I ended up having to use the mainsail halyard as my hoisting connection from the top of the mast to the gin pole (I couldn't figure out what I would do if I use the front stay to hoist the mast into place then have to disconnect the thing, then reconnect it etc).

Yesterday my wife and a friend who came over to help to make sure things went well, and we had a couple of strong guys to be there "just in case" something didn't work right and we had to man-handle things into place were ready to raise the mast.

At noon yesterday I was alone and connected the gin pole, the block and tackle, double, triple and quadruple checked all the stays, the shrouds and every bolt, pin, turnbuckle, cable, line and all the parts I'd just slapped together.

Everything was in order, and if it wasn't I fixed it. (Remember, I've not raised this mast up yet, and it's on my property instead of in the water, and on the trailer).

Everything looked good.

JoAnne came back from her quick shopping trip and climb aboard to help, and our friend Steve - a buddy from 20-some years ago who lives just down the street came right over.

He's the big one of the three of us, so I gave him the most difficult job, putting the pin in the connection point at the bow of the boat. JoAnne was the mast raiser... He thought he was going to have to muscle things into place :)

Anyway - long story short... it took about 3 minutes to get the mast from the semi-horizontal position to upright and vertical and to get the pin into the bracket and bolt things down.

We were about a half inch off... so I pulled on the jib halyard, pulled the mast slightly forward in the center, which lined up the brackets, the pin and there we go!

The mast is up! :)

I'll post some pictures tonight when I get home (I was pretty tired yesterday and haven't downloaded them yet.

But - I'm happy. My wife can almost raise this thing alone, with no winds, and on a "level surface" -- ok, it can be done in the water, I'm certain.

The gin pole is the coolest thing. I can disconnect it and stow it now and sail.

All I gotta do now is find some water......

N0NJY 11-24-2008 11:23 AM

Ok.. back to one of my original questions.

The rudder....

Suggestions?

Quote:

Questions.

Part I

Ok... rudder with the boat was broken some how, snapped off near the bottom pintle. The owner prior to the one I bought it from apparently repaired it and the last owner (of one season) had no real idea that it was broken off - I think. He seemed to be surprised when I pointed it out.

Anyway the repair was accomplished with two heavy pieces of aluminum on either side of the rudder, with a handful of bolts pushed through and apparently some kind of glue on the broken spot.

Other than going out and purchasing a brand new, $900 kick-up rudder - I was thinking of building a new one.

I've read the several threads here, but am still a bit confused about what material. Seems like most suggest some kind of glassing on the wood.

Any other suggestions on what materials could be worked into a good rudder assembly? (I don't want to spend 900 bucks if I don't have to just yet).

I have wood and metal working skills.
Anyone?

N0NJY 12-04-2008 11:52 AM

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/wind...4922_scale.jpg



There... raised it. now what?

Can't find any water.... grrr


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