1979 Mac Venture 25 STUFF - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > MacGregor
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-10-2008
N0NJY's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 795
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
N0NJY is on a distinguished road
1979 Mac Venture 25 STUFF

Questions.

Part I

Ok... rudder with the boat was broken some how, snapped off near the bottom pintle. The owner prior to the one I bought it from apparently repaired it and the last owner (of one season) had no real idea that it was broken off - I think. He seemed to be surprised when I pointed it out.

Anyway the repair was accomplished with two heavy pieces of aluminum on either side of the rudder, with a handful of bolts pushed through and apparently some kind of glue on the broken spot.

Other than going out and purchasing a brand new, $900 kick-up rudder - I was thinking of building a new one.

I've read the several threads here, but am still a bit confused about what material. Seems like most suggest some kind of glassing on the wood.

Any other suggestions on what materials could be worked into a good rudder assembly? (I don't want to spend 900 bucks if I don't have to just yet).

I have wood and metal working skills.

Part II:

Rigging.

I've gone over the mast and all the rigging, pulleys and parts. Everything is "in order" (except one pulley system which I will replace).

I've never stepped the mast on ANY boat, let alone this one.

This weekend my wife and I were out looking over how to do it. I don't have ready access to sailors in the area but, I've got the original manuals I downloaded.

Sure looks easy in the manual. One guy walks it back, puts the pin (bolt) through, pulls the forestay forward, puts a bolt in. Easy as pie.

Ummm no.

First off it leans across the poptop (which is down) at a slightly too steep of an angle to get the bottom of the mast into the bracket - where you can pin it.

Second, it's not heavy, but is heavier than it looks. My wife can't raise the mast.

Third...ok, stupid, but if the manual says "one person can do this" - then why can't THIS guy do it who has raised hundreds of masts (for antennas) in a similar manner (but I didn't have things stuck in the way either).

Suggestions?
__________________
Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 11-10-2008
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
NONJY....typically a gin pole and tackle is used to raise the mast. Here's a picture of one in action on a larger boat. The gin pole provids the leverage you need to raise the mast.

Note that the pole has 4 "lines" coming off it. One is the forestay. Two are run to the chain plates and provide lateral stability as the boat is raised. The fourth line is a block and tackle used to actually do the raising...I used my mainsheet tackle on on my old Catalina 22. The gin pole can be made of metal or wood.
Here's a more detailed link on the process.
http://www.rlyachts.net/tipsNoFearMastStepping.pdf
__________________
No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 11-11-2008
N0NJY's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 795
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
N0NJY is on a distinguished road
I know what a gin pole is, I've used them before on things like my 30 foot radio tower in the back yard.

My issue with the mast is simpler than just raising it.

It's connecting the mast to the bracket.

When it is walked back aft, it appears to ride too "high" on the cabin hatch and can't be raised enough in the stern of the boat to be able to line up the base of the mast with the bracket assembly on the deck.

In other words, even if I were using a gin pole, I still could not raise the mast up because it would kick out and go forward.

make sense?
__________________
Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 11-11-2008
N0NJY's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 795
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
N0NJY is on a distinguished road
Oh, and THANKS! for that awesome article

I''ve actually got the stuff to put together a good gin pole, just need to take the time to go out into the garage and start putting things together.
__________________
Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 11-11-2008
Perithead's Avatar
Montgomery 17
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: S/E Alabama
Posts: 384
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 8
Perithead is on a distinguished road
N0NJY,

I think I can help you on this one.

I used to have a Mac 25 a few years ago. I had a very simple and cheap system that allowed me to raise the mast all be myself pretty quickly.

For you first problem, putting the pin through the mast and step, I had a simple 2x4 with a V cut into the top of it. My Mac didn't have that little box in the back of the cockpit to house the fuel tank, if yours does you may have to rig the system slightly differnt. Anyway, I would take the 2x4 that was cut I'd say maybe 4' or so, not sure you can figure that out. I had the 2x4 standing upright at the very back of the cockpit and I had it tied to the sternrail where they touched. Sometimes I would have to have another rope to hold the 2x4 from slipping down.
I would take the mast and set it in the V of the 2x4 and slide the mast back till the hole lined up. (the 2x4 needs to be any height so that it is like someone holding it up for you when you put the pin in now)

That was the first step and got the mast about 1/3 of the way up.

I had another board, a 2x10 with another V cut into the one side of it. I would put the bottom of it in the cabin braced against the bulkhead with the winch in it. I would lean it forward towards the bow of the boat and rest on the sliding hatch when it was all the way opened. I had the 2x10 cut so that when I lifted the mast as high as I could off of the 2x4 while standing on each cockit side seat so that I could just barely set the mast into the V. The reason I used a 2x10 is because I couldnt hold the mast perfectly steady when setting it into it and the 2x10 gave me a little larger target to set the mast into. Also, I would run a line from one lifeline stanchion, around the 2x10 and to the other stanchion, this would prevent the 2x10 from sliding left and right.

Once you get the mast to the 2x10 you are 85% of the way there. Now, just step up onto the cabin top and stand the mast up and push it all the way forward.

I also had a small rope tied to the mast so that I could hold it up while I eased forward toward the bow to attach the stay.
__________________
Small is beautiful, simple, cheap, and easy......

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sailing Videos, Woodworking Videos and More!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 11-11-2008
Perithead's Avatar
Montgomery 17
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: S/E Alabama
Posts: 384
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 8
Perithead is on a distinguished road
Oops, forgot to add that you can check the website in my signature and go to the Sailboat Projects page the Modifications and check out the Mac 25 there. It has some decent pitures and descriptions of a mast raising system and some on the rudder.

It might help, but I bet if you looked around the site a little you would find some stuff that would.
__________________
Small is beautiful, simple, cheap, and easy......

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sailing Videos, Woodworking Videos and More!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 11-12-2008
N0NJY's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 795
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
N0NJY is on a distinguished road
Thanks!

I've got the hardware to do a gin pole and I'll look at something that will allow me to brace the mast properly that won't be too big, bulky and is easy to stow.
__________________
Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 11-24-2008
N0NJY's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 795
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
N0NJY is on a distinguished road
Perithead,

Thanks for the information from those notes you made.

I did do something like that.

I still need to actually build something for the stern of the boat to pull the mast up on, probably some sort of pole, using the rudder mounting with a roller device.

In the mean time, I took your advice and I used a 1 by 12 board that is 8 feet long.

I used that because 1) it was the correctly length, 2) I could put a notch into the wood that was the right size for the mast, and 3) the mast won't fall OUT of it (like it would off a 2X4).

I simply bungee corded the board in place into the cockpit and the easily walked the mast up onto the board.

I was able then to connect the bolt holding the mast to the housing. Worked good!

Anyway, over the course of the last couple of weeks, I worked out a gin pole.

I took a metal pole that is about 1/3rd the length of the mast, too a U-shaped mounting bracket and mounted it to the base of the mast at the pivot point.

Next I drilled holes through the pole for a pin-bolt and attached that.

Then I put a U-bolt on the end of the pole where I connected a block - a double pulley.

On the U bolt I set up a bridle of sorts to keep the gin pole pulling straight.

At the bow of the boat I put the other 2-pulley block and finally I ended up having to use the mainsail halyard as my hoisting connection from the top of the mast to the gin pole (I couldn't figure out what I would do if I use the front stay to hoist the mast into place then have to disconnect the thing, then reconnect it etc).

Yesterday my wife and a friend who came over to help to make sure things went well, and we had a couple of strong guys to be there "just in case" something didn't work right and we had to man-handle things into place were ready to raise the mast.

At noon yesterday I was alone and connected the gin pole, the block and tackle, double, triple and quadruple checked all the stays, the shrouds and every bolt, pin, turnbuckle, cable, line and all the parts I'd just slapped together.

Everything was in order, and if it wasn't I fixed it. (Remember, I've not raised this mast up yet, and it's on my property instead of in the water, and on the trailer).

Everything looked good.

JoAnne came back from her quick shopping trip and climb aboard to help, and our friend Steve - a buddy from 20-some years ago who lives just down the street came right over.

He's the big one of the three of us, so I gave him the most difficult job, putting the pin in the connection point at the bow of the boat. JoAnne was the mast raiser... He thought he was going to have to muscle things into place

Anyway - long story short... it took about 3 minutes to get the mast from the semi-horizontal position to upright and vertical and to get the pin into the bracket and bolt things down.

We were about a half inch off... so I pulled on the jib halyard, pulled the mast slightly forward in the center, which lined up the brackets, the pin and there we go!

The mast is up!

I'll post some pictures tonight when I get home (I was pretty tired yesterday and haven't downloaded them yet.

But - I'm happy. My wife can almost raise this thing alone, with no winds, and on a "level surface" -- ok, it can be done in the water, I'm certain.

The gin pole is the coolest thing. I can disconnect it and stow it now and sail.

All I gotta do now is find some water......
__________________
Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 11-24-2008
N0NJY's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 795
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
N0NJY is on a distinguished road
Ok.. back to one of my original questions.

The rudder....

Suggestions?

Quote:
Questions.

Part I

Ok... rudder with the boat was broken some how, snapped off near the bottom pintle. The owner prior to the one I bought it from apparently repaired it and the last owner (of one season) had no real idea that it was broken off - I think. He seemed to be surprised when I pointed it out.

Anyway the repair was accomplished with two heavy pieces of aluminum on either side of the rudder, with a handful of bolts pushed through and apparently some kind of glue on the broken spot.

Other than going out and purchasing a brand new, $900 kick-up rudder - I was thinking of building a new one.

I've read the several threads here, but am still a bit confused about what material. Seems like most suggest some kind of glassing on the wood.

Any other suggestions on what materials could be worked into a good rudder assembly? (I don't want to spend 900 bucks if I don't have to just yet).

I have wood and metal working skills.
Anyone?
__________________
Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 12-04-2008
N0NJY's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 795
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
N0NJY is on a distinguished road




There... raised it. now what?

Can't find any water.... grrr
__________________
Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mac 26M owners bite back jrmccormack MacGregor 29 03-15-2010 02:33 AM
how much foam in a Mac or Venture 25? malcolmwill MacGregor 19 01-17-2009 09:05 PM
Mac 22 vs. Venture 22 Torsten MacGregor 2 12-08-2006 05:59 AM
What happens to all the stuff from boats that are scrapped / totaled? T37Chef General Discussion (sailing related) 2 10-21-2006 11:42 PM
View a Mac 25 in Dallas area Michfar Boat Review and Purchase Forum 0 03-19-2001 08:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:07 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.