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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction > Multihull
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  #91  
Old 03-12-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
We put an offer in on a tiller steered 39S about 7 years ago. We couldn't meet on a price and I always wondered what if.......Hopefully we will be joining the Crowther family in a few weeks.
Was that the yellow-canvassed 'Twilight?' I watched her for sale at a French brokerage for what must have been the better part of a year, she had been up for longer than that I think before I bumped into the ad. I think she finally sold.

What are you getting?
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  #92  
Old 03-12-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Was that the yellow-canvassed 'Twilight?' I watched her for sale at a French brokerage for what must have been the better part of a year, she had been up for longer than that I think before I bumped into the ad. I think she finally sold.

What are you getting?
No, the Catana we were interested in was Vamp, based out of Florida. She was in pretty good shape and ended up going to California I believe. They have quite a few YouTube videos of her.
We should be surveying an older Spindrift in a few weeks. If kept light she should be pretty quick.
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  #93  
Old 03-12-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Maybe that's the one they renamed 'Paradocs?' They've resold her into Mexico I think.

Good luck with your survey
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  #94  
Old 03-12-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Maybe that's the one they renamed 'Paradocs?' They've resold her into Mexico I think.

Good luck with your survey
That's it.

Thanks!
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  #95  
Old 03-12-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
.......
I am confident, that a cat is a marvelous ship all along the barefoot route... But i intend to do cape horn for instance and the very north atlantic route...
I had my knockdown from a freak wave and was happy to sit at the wheel of a mono...
As i said before, cats are good for bay hopping and the one or other idle cruise but not for serious sailing...
And this is no bashing, but a personal preference!..........
All boats are fun in the right time and place

I crewed on a well setup 50 foot Crowther to and around parts of NZ.

In retrospect it really wasn’t a great high latitude passage vessel, we got there but it was much harder on us than a monohull would have been as we had a bit of 'weather'. It was also great for the sheltered coastal trip. But not a great experience for much of the exposed coast and we abandoned many of our intended destinations with much more stringent weather windows than we’d look for in our monohull. And gave up on some destinations trying to motor sail into the teeth of a typical south westerly. It went at 15 knots at 90 degrees and you could sail at 15 knots all day and go nowhere

In boisterous seas the cat was also slower by necessity. The motion was surprisingly uncomfortable from cross seas, exhibiting a violent lurching corkscrew ride that was very uncomfortable and impossible to predict. You never get used to it as in subconsciously predicting where to put your hand or foot as you move around.
It's also very hard to get rest, incredibly noisy, banging, slamming and vibrating is a bit unnerving. I’d say almost an order of magnitude noisier than a displacement monohull in heavy weather the bridge deck slamming in particular is always alarming.

We also had the boat picked up under the bridge deck and surfed sideways a few times completely out of all control. That's an interesting experience

In heavy weather, the cat really shouldn’t continue because it has a pitchpole induced inversion vulnerability. Then its hould lie to a drogue. That’s very frustrating if you are used to running off taking the sea on the quarter when it suits the course.

We also found that you can't do that if you have a lee shore ! Also the props are too small and too close to the surface and continually ventilate in steep to seas . The best we got was about 85 degrees into the teeth of the gale with storm sails and engines screaming but it was the sea that was the killer not the wind. We also couldn't tack the boat even under power and Gybed it and lost a lot of ground.

I'd take issue with any claim that an inverted cat is a safe platform in any conditions where the weather could overturn it you would be very lucky to survive. I think the survival rate is about 10% from the statistics so far.

As cats get lighter and more performance oriented they are becoming prone to calm water inversions even with sails down from gusts and downbursts. It's even happened at anchor and while motoring at night, both in sheltered waters.
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  #96  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
All boats are fun in the right time and place

I crewed on a well setup 50 foot Crowther to and around parts of NZ.

In retrospect it really wasn’t a great high latitude passage vessel, we got there but it was much harder on us than a monohull would have been as we had a bit of 'weather'. It was also great for the sheltered coastal trip. But not a great experience for much of the exposed coast and we abandoned many of our intended destinations with much more stringent weather windows than we’d look for in our monohull. And gave up on some destinations trying to motor sail into the teeth of a typical south westerly. It went at 15 knots at 90 degrees and you could sail at 15 knots all day and go nowhere

In boisterous seas the cat was also slower by necessity. The motion was surprisingly uncomfortable from cross seas, exhibiting a violent lurching corkscrew ride that was very uncomfortable and impossible to predict. You never get used to it as in subconsciously predicting where to put your hand or foot as you move around.
It's also very hard to get rest, incredibly noisy, banging, slamming and vibrating is a bit unnerving. I’d say almost an order of magnitude noisier than a displacement monohull in heavy weather the bridge deck slamming in particular is always alarming.

We also had the boat picked up under the bridge deck and surfed sideways a few times completely out of all control. That's an interesting experience

In heavy weather, the cat really shouldn’t continue because it has a pitchpole induced inversion vulnerability. Then its hould lie to a drogue. That’s very frustrating if you are used to running off taking the sea on the quarter when it suits the course.

We also found that you can't do that if you have a lee shore ! Also the props are too small and too close to the surface and continually ventilate in steep to seas . The best we got was about 85 degrees into the teeth of the gale with storm sails and engines screaming but it was the sea that was the killer not the wind. We also couldn't tack the boat even under power and Gybed it and lost a lot of ground.

I'd take issue with any claim that an inverted cat is a safe platform in any conditions where the weather could overturn it you would be very lucky to survive. I think the survival rate is about 10% from the statistics so far.

As cats get lighter and more performance oriented they are becoming prone to calm water inversions even with sails down from gusts and downbursts. It's even happened at anchor and while motoring at night, both in sheltered waters.
Just goes to show different strokes for different folks.
There's a guy that sailed the Pacific in a KP for years. He then bought a Crowther 46, sailed the same waters and said he would never go back to his old monohull.
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Old 03-13-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

We find the best juggle of compromises for our cruising style. It's all about compromise but it's good to know what you are compromising and why. Shallow draft is a big plus in the Pacific that alone can make a cat a superior choice for some people. It sucks sailing past a remote atoll with a peaceful lagoon with an entrance with less than 6' 6" at high tide when your boat draws 7'. Inside are the masts of Multihulls (and Centerboarders)

But in the Pacific within 35 degrees lat and avoiding cyclones it is aptly named. South of 40 degrees there's a system of lows endlessly circling delivering gales and storms on a regular basis, two weeks ago we had a sudden front with little warning with 80 knots wind. A 40 foot cat blew over at anchor in calm water.
That seems to be setting a trend, it happened not only to cats on moorings in cyclones but also recently to a cruising couple in a perfect anchorage in Greece, suddenly inverted by a downburst with the owners aboard, it nearly drowned the woman who was trapped in the hull, the husband was too shocked to be able to do anything to assist her. Her rescuer who came out from the shore was recently awarded a bravery medal in Buckingham palace! An identical cat in the same anchorage wasn’t flipped. Just a lottery..

Vimes said he wanted to go round the Horn ! A ballasted monohull sailboat is a much safer option in those latitudes.
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  #98  
Old 03-13-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
All boats are fun in the right time and place

I crewed on a well setup 50 foot Crowther to and around parts of NZ.....
Well set up??

On the contrary, that sounds like a horrible boat and at best your post should be in a section of "boat review", at worst, it sounds almost unbelievable.

I wonder what the Crowther company would think of this description?
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  #99  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

it appears that you have one of those catalac catamarans - right?
and you have the guts to pick at such a design: (first one)
Lock Crowther Study Plans
not to step on your toes, but these catalacs are the worst cat designs i have ever seen... they look more like a motor cat where the designer has simply put a mast up...
http://www.catamaransite.com/catalac_12m.html
some key features: 18,500 pds (that's 8,1 t) for a 12 m boat?
i know ballasted monohulls of that length which weigh only have that mass... the 50 foot crowther weighs only 16,500 pds ...
no clearance under the enormous bridgedeck which extends all the way to the bows - motor cat again?
a length/beam ratio of only 42 %? the crowther has 60%...

have you ever been in some serious weather with some good seaway with such a cat?
i'd really like to hear, how that thing behaved...
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
....As for people on this thread being "touchy", "opinionated" and "spouting off without first hand knowledge" -- you do realize this is the Internet right?
.
Ummmm no.

Sailnet occupies a unique position on the internet. Young sailors and new sailors pop on here daily, and depend on Sailnet for expert advice and/or instruction. Or haven't read any of the threads?

This my be your "internet" where you feel free to spout off inaccurate information ... but thousands of new sailors depend on this site. If you can't be accurate, why don't you play on your internet somewhere else?
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