How do you feel about catamarans? - Page 13 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction > Multihull
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree120Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #121  
Old 03-13-2014
capt vimes's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 617
Thanks: 7
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 1
capt vimes is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
A 12 meter Catamaran displaces 18,000 lbs. From that same website you referenced.........

Solaris 42 24,640 lbs
Admiral 40 18,739 lbs
Dean 400 18000 lbs
Catalac 12M 18,500 lbs
wait... could it be that all of your references are multis?
very clever - you support your boat by saying that other cats are as heavy as yours.... ?
Quote:
Displacement is not the same as "weight" now is it?
it is...
Quote:
Catalac catamarans regularly cross oceans. There are two examples on that same website, if you bothered to read it.
wow - i am astonished...
out of - how many - 2 have crossed "oceans"... ?
define "oceans" please.
Quote:
Also a Catalac 12M survived the Queen's Birthday Storm, at ground zero.

Google it.
sure not!
you have an evidence, bring it to me.
i will not do your job...
Quote:

It was very impressive as every monohull caught in that same storm rolled, and was dismasted with serious injuries and deaths.

Your ignorance just trashed one of the most sea worthy catamarans of them all.
sure not!
you have an evidence, bring it to me.
i will not do your job...
Quote:
And by the way I love that website reference you used. I ought to, I wrote it.
you coded that site?
....

oh and btw - i am a software engineer by profession and ... no and.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #122  
Old 03-13-2014
TropicCat's Avatar
Senior Pirate
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL
Posts: 2,423
Thanks: 5
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 7
TropicCat is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

You aren't aware of the Queens birthday storm? The only event in our FRP boating history that caught catamarans and monohulls in the same storm category 5 storm. The result was the event that launched catamaran sales in the 1990s. The rest is history...

One more thing ... man up and do your own homework.
__________________
Tropic Cat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #123  
Old 03-13-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hobart
Posts: 80
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MikeJohns is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
Wow .....More internet armchair experts...................................... very impressive as every monohull caught in that same storm rolled, and was dismasted with serious injuries and deaths. Your ignorance ..........
I'm afraid you have incorrect information about the QB storm. Haven't you posted this before on another site and been corrected and given references?

Every catamaran in the survival area was incapacitated and the crews rescued, of the around 32 sailboats boats logged in the storm 3 were cats one of which was on the periphery which reported much more benign sea state than those rescued experienced.

The inquiry found that the main reason for the mono-hull problems was a lack of knowledge of heavy weather tactics. They noted that of the 14 mono-hulls that hove-to none had any problem or injury. All the problems came from running or the decision to simply lie ahull. The lost boats skipper was told he could lie ahull but said he didn't know how to ! He carried on running towing nets and eventually after a heavy battering sank from accumulated downflooding.

Of the 9 boats in the fleet that issued dstress calls:
One monohull that issued a mayday later cancelled it.
7 boats crews were taken off.
One sadly sank with all hands.

2 of those rescued were the catamarans ( all the cats in the survival area). One cat was recovered and towed to Tonga afterwards. But both cats lost their steering in the storm or even in the lead up to the worst of the storm. Both cat crews stated that they felt they had been close to inversion several times.

Of the few monohulls rolled 'Silver shadow' rolled and lost its mast. 'Pilot' a 32 foot boat rolled fractured itís mast but the mast remained intact
'Pollen path' rolled and the mast remained intact and it continued to Tonga after the storm.
capt vimes likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to MikeJohns For This Useful Post:
capt vimes (03-14-2014)
  #124  
Old 03-13-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,785
Thanks: 32
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Mike thanks for your post it got me to read about this tragedy. Interesting discussions about tactics. I had asked earlier in this thread about storm tactics for multi hulls. Would you or others care to offer comments. I know with my high aspect keel and balanced rudder my first line of defense is fore reaching then the series drogue comes out. Hoving too just doesn't work well without a lot of tuning.I had wondered if like tactics with mono hull have changed with transition away from full keel boats has tactics changed now we see the current generation of multi flyers so different than the prout39 s of the past?
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46

Last edited by outbound; 03-13-2014 at 11:49 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #125  
Old 03-13-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,785
Thanks: 32
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Sea anchors off of bows seem asking for trouble to me. Thought multi s now have other choices
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #126  
Old 03-14-2014
capt vimes's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 617
Thanks: 7
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 1
capt vimes is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
One more thing ... man up and do your own homework.
ridiculous...
you refer vaguely to an event 20 years in the past and i have to look it up and "do my homework"?
get real...

but thank's to mike it seems like 100% of the cats at "ground zero" - as you called it - had to be rescued...
the percentage of monohulls which needed assistance is unknown since there is no figure on how many boats were in there altogether...
but a part of them made it through without needing any help, not like the 2 cats...
5 issued a mayday, 1 cancelled the mayday later 3 rolled and 1 got dismasted by an uncalled rescue vessel which came along side and collided with the boat...
is that it?
is that the "evidence" of the seaworthiness of multihulls?
well... 100% of them needed rescue... very seaworthy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #127  
Old 03-14-2014
capt vimes's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 617
Thanks: 7
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 1
capt vimes is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

also interesting:
Quote:
Between the 5th and 8th or June Monowai with its Wasp helicopter (Budgie), were engaged in searching a large area for the missing sloop Quartermaster. At one time some yacht and personal gear was spotted, but a pharmaceutical label identified it as belonging to the catamaran Heart Light. Heart Light had broken up a day or so earlier after the crew or 3 had been taken aboard the fishing boat San Te Maru 18.
from:
The 1994 Queen's birthday storm | Pangolin
"heart light" was the catalac tropiccat was refering to...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #128  
Old 03-14-2014
TropicCat's Avatar
Senior Pirate
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL
Posts: 2,423
Thanks: 5
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 7
TropicCat is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
I'm afraid you have incorrect information about the QB storm. Haven't you posted this before on another site and been corrected and given references?
Corrected? What on earth are you talking about? You can't "correct" facts.

"......Heart Light, a 41-foot Catalac U.S.-based catamaran with a crew of four; a husband and wife couple with 16,000 ocean miles, and two crew with no offshore experience: Despite having 16,000 miles ocean experience, the captain and wife claimed to have not steered the boat except near the dock and to have never jibed between the States and New Zealand. Heart Light was a heavy, solid fiberglass, narrow catamaran. Nevertheless, she did reasonably well, surfing at between 6 and 13 knots while dragging a drogue. When the autopilot couldn't handle it any longer, the skipper finally learned how to steer, working desperately to prevent waves from slewing the stern in front of the bow.

Eventually, both engines went down and lines fouled both rudders (failed drogue deployment). They tied off the helm to port and slid sideways down waves. Despite being "captapulted" through the air on many occasions and being knocked onto one hull several other times, she endured. When the rescue ship arrived, her captain noted that the boat "appeared seaworthy and was riding comfortably in the improved weather." ......"


"....."Five things stand out from the experience of the seven monohulls:

1) Despite all efforts, it was virtually impossible to keep the boats from ending up beam-to the seas, which resulted in five of the boats being repeatedly knocked down or rolled.

2) Despite trailing drogues, two of the boats pitchpoled.

3) No matter if the seven monohulls pitchpoled or rolled, all of them lost their masts.

4) As a result of the pitchpoles, knockdowns, and rollovers, many of the crews suffered serious injuries.

4) Having a ship come alongside to effect a rescue was extremely difficult and dangerous for everyone involved.

5) Perhaps the most amazing thing is how well the seven boats held up to the unthinkably horrible conditions; had it not been for scuttling or collisions with rescuing ships, six of them would have continued to float. The age-old admonition to never leave a boat until it's underwater would seem as true as ever."......"



"....There are several interesting things about the two catamarans in the core area of the storm:

1) Neither of them pitchpoled;

2) Neither of them flipped- although the crews thought they came close;

3) Neither of them were dismasted;

) Both of them apparently would have survived - by surfing forwards, sideways, and backwards- had they just been left alone....."


you guys are really something else. Read the damn book
__________________
Tropic Cat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #129  
Old 03-14-2014
TropicCat's Avatar
Senior Pirate
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL
Posts: 2,423
Thanks: 5
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 7
TropicCat is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
also interesting:

from:
The 1994 Queen's birthday storm | Pangolin
"heart light" was the catalac tropiccat was refering to...
This post is in error. "....The Catalac was DELIBERATELY rammed and sunk. This was at the insistence of the owners wife who believed that the storm was some sort of intergalactic struggle between the forces of good and evil. She wrote a book about the incident which was, errr, interesting reading! The boat had been doing pretty well in the hands of folks who were seriously lacking in experience and good judgement...."

She survived the storm just fine.
__________________
Tropic Cat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by TropicCat; 03-14-2014 at 07:35 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #130  
Old 03-14-2014
TropicCat's Avatar
Senior Pirate
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL
Posts: 2,423
Thanks: 5
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 7
TropicCat is on a distinguished road
Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
ridiculous...
you refer vaguely to an event 20 years in the past and i have to look it up and "do my homework"?...
Vaguely? No...specifically.

This storm is the only data point of boat survivability of both monohulls and catamarans caught in the same storm.

Then again, if you did your homework, you'd be aware of this fact.
__________________
Tropic Cat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Most of you know how I feel about waving, right? flyingwelshman General Discussion (sailing related) 32 08-19-2013 10:46 PM
Help I feel out of my depth rwilson37643 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 44 02-12-2012 12:21 PM
Does anyone ever feel this way? Barquito General Discussion (sailing related) 43 10-10-2010 12:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:03 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.