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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction > Multihull
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  #151  
Old 03-14-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Comprehension seems to be a problem for you?

ALL the data is the same:
1) both boats are berthed in the same marina.
2) both boats sail the same water (coastal and inland UK).
3) both boats are valued the same.
4) both skippers have the same experience....

The only difference is "one" hull versus "two" hulls.

The boat with "two" hulls costs 20% more to insure.



Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Makes all the difference in the world. Would an insurance company quote a Contessa 26 the same as a Mac Gregor 26 for offshore work? Different manufacturered boats have different risks.
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  #152  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Makes all the difference in the world. Would an insurance company quote a Contessa 26 the same as a Mac Gregor 26 for offshore work? Different manufacturered boats have different risks.
i am quite sure that the mac gregor 26 is not certified for offshore sailing...
so why do you compare a coastal motor sailor with an sailing yacht, hopefully certified for offshore... (could not find any reference now because that boat is sooo old... )

do you think that this is not making a difference for the insurance companies?
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  #153  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
i am quite sure that the mac gregor 26 is not certified for offshore sailing...
so why do you compare a coastal motor sailor with an sailing yacht, hopefully certified for offshore... (could not find any reference now because that boat is sooo old... )

do you think that this is not making a difference for the insurance companies?
I think you got my point. Just because you have two boats of the same age, same length, same value doesn't mean they will receive the same rate. So the Contessa 26 gets a better rate because it is offshore rated and that's what it's being insured for.
Another example, a mid 70's Iroquois catamaran and a mid 70's Catalac. Same year, same value same everything except the Iroquois has a reputation of occasionally flipping where the Catalac has never flipped, impeccable safety record. Judging on the manufacturer which boat is the better risk and which boat gets a better insurance rate? The Catalac of course.
You cannot get on a website, plug in some numbers and come to the conclusion that monohulls get a 20% better rate than catamarans. There are more variables than that. On the whole last I heard, the insurance companies considered the catamaran to be a slightly better risk than the monohull. Myself, I think a good seaworthy catamaran and a good seaworthy monohull are on equal ground. Just a matter of picking your poison!

Last edited by smj; 03-14-2014 at 05:01 PM.
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  #154  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

this here is not the first thread or argument i had with multihull favorites...
curiously - they all end the same...
and i do not get it...

why is there such a great urge on the two hull side to "excuse" their boats?
most of the monohullers here have already said that multis do have their merits - i would definitely not cruise the maldives in a 6 ft draft mono, but i would also not cross from there to australia in a multi...
what is the problem?
it is my preference, i do not try to convince anybody to a mono...

why do i always have the impression that the multihullers try to convince anybody to choose a multi at any time?
i just don't get it...
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  #155  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Interesting. My highlight standard is different from yours, Eisberg:

"For a family cruise, I asked him, what would be his ideal boat?

'It may be different from other people's, but it is a fairly heavy displacement monohull, certainly not one that sits on top of the water and not a multihull. I would not have a multihull as my ideal cruising boat because they do need a fair bit more attention than a monohull. Under extreme conditions if I am on a boat like ENZA, fantastic, it gives you a much better ride than a monohull, but with the family in a 35-40 footer, I'll take the reasonably heavy displacement mono with not too much glass in the cabin sides. People can get fairly well down in the boat, closer to where it pivots. There is a lot less motion and you can get quite a reasonable ride."

- Kim Taylor, 1994 PACIFIC STORM SURVEY, page 53


Italics: by the above in italics, I take it to mean that in order to get a reasonable ride in the heavy displacement mono, you have to get 'fairly well down in the boat…'
Well, I'll go with Blake's assessment in its full context... I believe someone mentioned earlier, a common refrain among offshore sailors is that, in very general terms regarding heavy weather tactics, 'a good monohull will take care of you, whereas you have to take care of a multihull...', or words to that effect... Seems pretty clear to me, that for the sort of shorthanded voyaging most Mom & Pop cruisers do, he's endorsing a typically more easily-managed monohull...

ENZA was a 92-foot cat that Blake and Robin Knox-Johnston chose in setting the RTW record 20 years ago. Sailed by a highly experienced, professional crew, she was quite a bit different from the boats most of us sail with our partners, or family/friends... No doubt the motion of such a boat off the wind in a blow could be pretty comfortable, although one of the main reasons their first Jules Verne Trophee attempt had to be abandoned, was the extreme battering the "God Pod" between the hulls took from the seas, and had to be substantially re-designed and beefed-up prior to their second, successful record attempt... However, they were almost forced to abandon the second attempt as well, after Blake seriously injured his back after ENZA stuffed her bows at speed, and he was out of commission and confined to his berth for a couple of weeks...

Finally, you'll note that I said ENZA was a 92-foot cat...:-) This was the last the world saw of her, after she capsized near Cape Finestere a few years ago while being delivered to England by a professional crew...

Quote:
Conditions at the time were reported to be slight slight seas, good visibility, and winds 11 KNOTS. In an interview with the French press today, skipper Ben Jones said that they were hit by a sudden gust of wind. 'The catamaran accelerated from 15 to 30knots and we were not able to slow her down.'
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  #156  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
I think you got my point. Just because you have two boats of the same age, same length, same value doesn't mean they will receive the same rate. So the Contessa 26 gets a better rate because it is offshore rated and that's what it's being insured for.
Another example, a mid 70's Iroquois catamaran and a mid 70's Catalac. Same year, same value same everything except the Iroquois has a reputation of occasionally flipping where the Catalac has never flipped, impeccable safety record. Judging on the manufacturer which boat is the better risk and which boat gets a better insurance rate? The Catalac of course.
You cannot get on a website, plug in some numbers and come to the conclusion that monohulls get a 20% better rate than catamarans. There are more variables than that. On the whole last I heard, the insurance companies considered the catamaran to be a slightly better risk than the monohull. Myself, I think a good seaworthy catamaran and a good seaworthy monohull are on equal ground. Just a matter of picking your poison!
i do think that insurance companies work differently here in europe and across the pond...
i completely understand shockwaves post, because i am from europe and what he quoted in his post is everything the company wants to know...
not a thing about model, certification of the owner, probable resale value (what a nonsense) and some other points which have been brought up here...

so please just leave it, because there are obviously differences we cannot agree on now...
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  #157  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

also:
How do you feel about catamarans?
could this be a reason for different insurance rates in europe and US as well?
just asking...
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  #158  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
this here is not the first thread or argument i had with multihull favorites...
curiously - they all end the same...
and i do not get it...

why is there such a great urge on the two hull side to "excuse" their boats?
most of the monohullers here have already said that multis do have their merits - i would definitely not cruise the maldives in a 6 ft draft mono, but i would also not cross from there to australia in a multi...
what is the problem?
it is my preference, i do not try to convince anybody to a mono...

why do i always have the impression that the multihullers try to convince anybody to choose a multi at any time?
i just don't get it...
I think if you would reread the thread you would realize there are a lot more people calling multis crap than multi owners calling monos crap. Just as your statement above that you wouldn't cross from the Maldives to Australia in a multi. Basically calling multis only coastal cruisers. I have stated that I think they are both seaworthy vessels and it's just a matter of choice. I don't believe I've attacked monos and if I have it wasn't much. Kinda burns my ass that I've owned and sailed multis for over 23 years and have always had to put up with a bunch of uneducated mono hullers putting down my choice to sail what I like. So be it as I am happy that I had the chance to seriously research the advantages and disadvantages of multis and I made the choice I did. Live and let live
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
also:
How do you feel about catamarans?
could this be a reason for different insurance rates in europe and US as well?
just asking...
Wait a minute, didn't you just say leave it, because there are obviously differences we cannot agree on now?
But to answer your question, I don't think so. Number one, when we insured our first cat 23 years ago it was a British built cat insured through Lloyd's of London and they told me they considered a cat to be a better risk. And number two, Prouts are built In Britain and less than 10 years ago supposedly Prouts had more safely traveled blue water miles than any other boat manufacturer in the world. Since then catamarans have supposedly become more seaworthy.
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Multi can be excellent voyaging boats even for mom and pops like me.proof is folks doing it. However still think more expensive in size needed to own and operate. Also not yet mentioned roughly twice as likely to be hit by lightening for reasons that are unclear. Something to think about in Florida
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