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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction > Multihull
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  #181  
Old 03-15-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
But the fact still remains that multihulls statistically flip as often as monos sink. So which would you rather be on?
The one that will most likely right itself prior to sinking. I think most sinkings don't happen instantaneously. I DEFINITELY wouldn't want to have a boat land on me as it flips!

Last edited by Dean101; 03-15-2014 at 09:18 PM.
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  #182  
Old 03-15-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
The one that will most likely right itself.
Ok, the one that sinks.:-)
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  #183  
Old 03-15-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Ok, the one that sinks.:-)
I was doing some distracted typing and hit submit before I actually finished what I was posting. Honestly though, this has been an..... interesting thread. I have never stepped foot on a cat but I can see the merits of both. My own opinion of them is that, Hell yeah, I envy the room they have! I really don't think they would be for me though. For one, I doubt I would ever have the budget to buy one let alone properly maintain it. And then there is the issue of all that deck space. I'm not so sure I would like having to work on such a large open deck with a big distance between handholds if I needed to manhandle sails or secure a line, etc. in big seas. And the boom on those things look to be much higher than I could reach. Seems like you would be awfully exposed in high winds if you have to stand and stretch like that in an emergency. Plus, as unlikely as it may or may not be, once flipped, you're done. A mono is inherently self-righting. Even if the boat is rolled and the mast is lost, there will be options to explore on a vessel that is still upright, possibly with an operational engine. An emergency rig made with a spinnaker pole, line, and a spare sail may even get you to land.

Of course, if like most sailors, you never plan on being so far from land that those things would be an issue, then I guess a cat would be great. But that falls in the realm of personal preference, which is nobodies business but the one doing the preferring.
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  #184  
Old 03-16-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
When a cat driver says they don't like to heel, mono drivers say that's your choice.

When I mono driver says they prefer the stability of a deep weighted keel in a storm to a cat, it's like kicking a hornets nest. Somehow the mono drivers have to prove they've fully scientifically tested both to be credible. I don't have to drink and drive to know I would be impaired.

.......hornets incoming.......
Can't say I share the sentiment or accept the logical fallacy ("I don't have to drink"--actually, there is a lot of near-universally accepted scientific work behind that relationship, so it does not relate to to the point you are making or to the debate), but I like the post!
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  #185  
Old 03-16-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

I have been inverted in a 37 foot monohull she flipped back up again and carried on sailing,we carried on and sailed to port,in a cat we would have probably drowned or died of hypothermia,off the west coast of new zealand at night.very cold conditions.
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  #186  
Old 03-16-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by harmonic View Post
I have been inverted in a 37 foot monohull she flipped back up again and carried on sailing,we carried on and sailed to port,in a cat we would have probably drowned or died of hypothermia,off the west coast of new zealand at night.very cold conditions.
Takes much more force to flip a cat than roll a mono so no telling what would have happened in the same situation.
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  #187  
Old 03-16-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by jzk View Post
As far as safety goes, it is true that once you flip a catamaran it is pretty much game over. But, many of them don't sink. And, they are the ideal vessel in which to ride out the worst storm ever via a jordan series drogue.
Hmmm, not so sure about that one... Such a sweeping generalization hardly applies in the real world, I've seen plenty of cruising cats out there that the LAST tactic I'd want to employ in in storm or survival conditions would be to present some of those open back porches to large breaking seas from astern...

Large sliding glass doors do not an effective or seaworthy offshore 'companionway' make... :-)





This sort of liability is not confined to catamarans, I believe one of the worst trends in design today is the vulnerability to downflooding inherent in many boats that might conceivably be taken offshore, and experience extreme conditions...





A Jordan Series Drogue is one of the best tools a bluewater sailor can have at his disposal, I'd never want to sail a boat offshore where the option to use one would be taken off the table due to such an undesirable characteristic of the design for heavy weather...

Quote:

The problem is that in severe conditions the series drogue may work too well, holding the stern down to an advancing sea, so that the rear end of the boat and local structure, such as the cockpit and companionway, are at risk. In spite of Don Jordan's comments, this remains an area of concern for us when considering boats with vulnerable structure at the stern...

Steve Dashew, SURVIVING THE STORM, page 435

Last edited by JonEisberg; 03-16-2014 at 09:32 AM.
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  #188  
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Takes much more force to flip a cat than roll a mono so no telling what would have happened in the same situation.
Sorry, but I believe the account of the capsize of PARADOX cited in Post #171 disproves that pretty convincingly... :-)
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  #189  
Old 03-16-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Just for the record, I am a mono sailor. And, I think we agree about the benefits of the Jordan series drogue, no?

The thing about the drogue is that one maintains forward motion. The force on the drogue increases gradually, but quickly with the square of the speed of the boat. This avoids the shock loads presented by a traditional sea anchor. It also prevents the rudders from damage on a cat from going backwards which can be quite devastating in a cat.

The nice thing about the cat with the drogue is that the cat maintains stability with her stern to the wind. The mono might not always be so lucky. With the mono, in the really bad stuff, it could oscillate and present a quarter to the wind/wave which can lead to a knockdown.

And the experience on the crew will be much more mild in the cat. All of this is documented pretty well on the Jordan Series Drogue website.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Hmmm, not so sure about that one... Such a sweeping generalization hardly applies in the real world, I've seen plenty of cruising cats out there that the LAST tactic I'd want to employ in in storm or survival conditions would be to present some of those open back porches to large breaking seas from astern...

Large sliding glass doors do not an effective or seaworthy offshore 'companionway' make... :-)





This sort of liability is not confined to catamarans, I believe one of the worst trends in design today is the vulnerability to downflooding inherent in many boats that might conceivably be taken offshore, and experience extreme conditions...





A Jordan Series Drogue is one of the best tools a bluewater sailor can have at his disposal, I'd never want to sail a boat offshore where the option to use one would be taken off the table due to such an undesirable characteristic of the design for heavy weather...
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  #190  
Old 03-16-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Sorry, but I believe the account of the capsize of PARADOX cited in Post #171 disproves that pretty convincingly... :-)
I think the difference being that the cat flipped and there were no monos that SANK.
In the Queens Birthday storm in the early nineties none of the cats flipped but most of the monos either got knocked down or rolled. Another example would be on our first catamaran. We had a strong storm come in while at anchor with initial gusts of 90kts. When the storm came in a good percentage of the monos were knocked down to 90 degrees where our catamaran stayed anchored directly in the wind.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that all monos are unseaworthy and all cats are seaworthy. What I'm saying is that a good seaworthy cat is just as seaworthy as a good seaworthy mono. Vice versa.
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