How do you feel about catamarans? - Page 25 - SailNet Community
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post #241 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Right... So, in the Real World, the graph in Figure 3 constitutes 'PROOF' that a boat like a Valiant 40, sailing in flat water in 11 knots of wind, when suddenly stuck by a gust of wind possessing roughly half the force of a 48 knot gust, will wind up with its mast underwater, and its keel in the air ???

Dream on...
All boats are different. I'm sure a Valiant 40 would be harder to knock down than a Hunter 40. Maybe it would take 40% more energy to knock a cat down to 90degrees as it would to knock the Valiant down to 135degrees. Maybe with the Hunter it would take 60% more energy. Get the drift?
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post #242 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Originally Posted by Multihullgirl View Post
Sunken catamaran:
Devonhouse Recollections
So this is proof that a cat can right itself. I guess it may have taken slightly longer to right than a mono
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post #243 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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So this is proof that a cat can right itself. I guess it may have taken slightly longer to right than a mono
It also was still on the top of the water, which in the articles I've read, abandoned catamarans tend to be found that way, and found with some frequency. Even the 'Teignmouth Electron' was found and I believe is still to be found rotting on a beach in the Caymans or somewhere in the islands.

This is to say, in despite what mr Johns has asserted here. I am honestly interested in Johns' cites, being that I have a cat and what he had to say in regards inverted cats and death rates was news to me.
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post #244 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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All boats are different. I'm sure a Valiant 40 would be harder to knock down than a Hunter 40. Maybe it would take 40% more energy to knock a cat down to 90degrees as it would to knock the Valiant down to 135degrees. Maybe with the Hunter it would take 60% more energy. Get the drift?
Yes, hence the absurdity of making such sweeping generalizations such as...

It is what it is. It takes 50% more force to knock a 35' cat down to 90 degrees than it does to knock a 35' monohull down to 135 degrees.

or...

But the fact still remains that multihulls statistically flip as often as monos sink...

or...

What I'm saying is that a good seaworthy cat is just as seaworthy as a good seaworthy mono.

or...

And, they are the ideal vessel in which to ride out the worst storm ever via a jordan series drogue.

:-)

Last edited by JonEisberg; 03-19-2014 at 10:16 AM.
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post #245 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Yes, hence the absurdity of making such sweeping generalizations such as...

It is what it is. It takes 50% more force to knock a 35' cat down to 90 degrees than it does to knock a 35' monohull down to 135 degrees.

or...

But the fact still remains that multihulls statistically flip as often as monos sink...

or...

What I'm saying is that a good seaworthy cat is just as seaworthy as a good seaworthy mono.

or...

And, they are the ideal vessel in which to ride out the worst storm ever via a jordan series drogue.

:-)
What's absurd is I've taken time out of my day to answer your posts and post links that back my posts. I've seen no facts from you. Any problem with you posting some links to back your posts or maybe you can't find any?
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post #246 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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What's absurd is I've taken time out of my day to answer your posts and post links that back my posts. I've seen no facts from you. Any problem with you posting some links to back your posts or maybe you can't find any?
Huh? Are you confusing me with someone else, perhaps? Hell, I believe I've probably offered more cites or factual accounts during the course of this thread than any other poster, linking to the 1994 PACIFIC STORM SURVEY, citations from Steve Dashew, Peter Blake, accounts published in LATITUDE 38 and OCEAN NAVIGATOR in support of my opinion...

Meanwhile, still haven't seen any links from you that back such assertions as:

As far as safety, the insurance industry finds cat's and mono's to be almost an equal risk for the boats themselves. But they have found injury to crew to be an 8-9 times greater risk on a mono.

But the fact still remains that multihulls statistically flip as often as monos sink.

On the whole last I heard, the insurance companies considered the catamaran to be a slightly better risk than the monohull.


Look, I've already conceded that catamarans can have a great deal to recommend them, and can be a great choice for the type of cruising many people do... Many are obviously capable of completing ocean passages in comfort and safety. I freely admit my experience with large catamarans is limited, and I would not feel qualified to deliver one offshore, nor would I want to be caught out in gale or storm force conditions aboard one, and I believe the tactic of lying to a series drogue in SOME of the cruising cats I see out there could be a dreadful mistake in a serious storm... (As it would likely be for many of today's monohulls, as well )

On the other hand, if I hit the lottery and money was no object, I might seriously consider something like a Gunboat, or one of Chris White's Atlantic designs... If I wanted to spend a winter in the Bahamas, I'd concede that even the recently departed Alpha 42 could be tough to beat...

Just trying to counter some of these overly broad "facts" being tossed about this thread, is all...
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post #247 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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Huh? Are you confusing me with someone else, perhaps? Hell, I believe I've probably offered more cites or factual accounts during the course of this thread than any other poster, linking to the 1994 PACIFIC STORM SURVEY, citations from Steve Dashew, Peter Blake, accounts published in LATITUDE 38 and OCEAN NAVIGATOR in support of my opinion...

Meanwhile, still haven't seen any links from you that back such assertions as:

As far as safety, the insurance industry finds cat's and mono's to be almost an equal risk for the boats themselves. But they have found injury to crew to be an 8-9 times greater risk on a mono.

But the fact still remains that multihulls statistically flip as often as monos sink.

On the whole last I heard, the insurance companies considered the catamaran to be a slightly better risk than the monohull.


Look, I've already conceded that catamarans can have a great deal to recommend them, and can be a great choice for the type of cruising many people do... Many are obviously capable of completing ocean passages in comfort and safety. I freely admit my experience with large catamarans is limited, and I would not feel qualified to deliver one offshore, nor would I want to be caught out in gale or storm force conditions aboard one, and I believe the tactic of lying to a series drogue in SOME of the cruising cats I see out there could be a dreadful mistake in a serious storm... (As it would likely be for many of today's monohulls, as well )

On the other hand, if I hit the lottery and money was no object, I might seriously consider something like a Gunboat, or one of Chris White's Atlantic designs... If I wanted to spend a winter in the Bahamas, I'd concede that even the recently departed Alpha 42 could be tough to beat...

Just trying to counter some of these overly broad "facts" being tossed about this thread, is all...
My apologies, I was confusing you with someone else, except the discussion on the forces exerted on cats and monos which I did produce a link. And obviously you didn't like that link Can you produce a link that disputes Shuttleworths findings?
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post #248 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Once thought to buy a Prout 39. Was impressed how well thought out and well constructed it was. At the time 80-90% of my sailing was single handed and with limited time mostly day sails or short cruises. Found out by my self I would have trouble picking up and rigging to the mooring I had from my town. This would be especially true when the wind was different then current as the boat would be more effected by wind with mono hulls around me would be more effected by current. Also getting in and out of the fuel dock given the limited clearances seemed even more scary then the white knuckle experience it is by yourself on a mono.
Still really liked to ease of setting downwind sails without poles, room. and the lack of draft.
Took a performance cruising tri out ( got it from a friend who sells multi's) with the wife when looking for our "last boat". Put up the rags- immediately was doing double digits and the stays where singing with the tiller vibrating in you hand. I loved it. She hated it. We ended up with a mono.

s/v Hippocampus
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post #249 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

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My apologies, I was confusing you with someone else, except the discussion on the forces exerted on cats and monos which I did produce a link. And obviously you didn't like that link Can you produce a link that disputes Shuttleworths findings?
Nope, I won't even bother to try... :-)

However, I seriously doubt that even Shuttleworth himself would assert that his findings are proof that either a typical 35' cruiser or an 82' offshore racing monohull would have been capsized in the same benign conditions - and by a gust of considerably less force - than that which capsized PARADOX, or the ex-ENZA...
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post #250 of 308 Old 03-19-2014
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Re: How do you feel about catamarans?

Kretschmer had this to say, right here at the site:

Reality Check on Cruising Catamarans
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