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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?
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Thread: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-05-2013 10:38 AM
Alex W
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

I picked up a symmetrical spinnaker in good condition yesterday from Second Wave. I'll try this with a pole first and get comfortable with that before flying the asymmetrical with a pole.

The new spinnaker is very light (0.5oz fabric), good for our light air but I'll need to be careful with it. It looks like a nice tri-radial cut and even though it is fairly old it appears to have barely been used. Overall I think I'll be able to find good uses for it where it compliments my asym instead of replacing it.
06-03-2013 07:38 PM
Alex W
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Thanks guys, this is helpful. I have some rigging to figure out, but it'll be fun.
06-03-2013 06:09 PM
zz4gta
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Alex W -

Sounds like you want to rig an assym on your 28 footer with an articulating pole? I raced on a C&C115 with the same setup. Oversized pole and chute. You will need...

-A topping lift for the pole, you can do a bridle setup or just run it out to the end of the pole. Usually it's at the end of the pole on big boats for dip pole gybes.

-two sheets, very long. At least 2x the boat length, posibley more.

-two guys that are low stretch. These can be shorter, but use hi-er tech stuff.

-a foreguy that allows the chute to pass in front of the forstay (low stretch). On the C&C115 it comes out of the bow below the forstay tang. Yes there's a hole in the hull.

To gybe it you'll need to....
Ease the guy to the forestay and transfer the load to the foreguy,
Sky the inboard end of the pole,
Lower the topper,
Trip the pole off the old guy, swing the pole to the other side and make the new guy,
Gybe the boat and keep the lazy sheet from going under the boat,
Lower the inboard end, raise the topper,
Ease the foreguy, and grind back on the new guy.

It's honestly the best of both worlds but it certainly ain't easy.
06-02-2013 01:26 AM
blt2ski
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Alex,

I do use a topping lift for the mid part of the pole

The tack line works as a downhaul

I have a LONG single sheet line, so I suppose one could say 2 is needed per say.

Then I do have two lines for the pole end.

I also to gybe, need to pull the pole off, then outside (our prefered) gybe the spin, move the pole from one side to the other, rehook the pole, and then pull the pole back to an appropriate place per the wind conditions. Sometimes I fine even having the pole more or less straight forward helps vs no pole.

Hope that kinda explains things.

marty
06-01-2013 06:37 PM
Alex W
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Marty: I understand the theory and it makes sense to me. I was asking how you have your pole rigged?

My assumption is that you need the following:
* topping lift
* downhaul
* two after guys (one port, one starboard)
* two sheets

Is that correct?
06-01-2013 02:01 PM
blt2ski
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Alex,

Using a pole on the tack does help to pull it off to the opposite side of the main. I do that frequently to get better down wind angles. Works quite well actually, and is supposed to be faster than a sym because you can get more sa to the side of the main with less overlap. Not sure with the shorter wind/leeward legs we have inpuget sound, my swag for this type of race, a sym will be faster. But if doing say a vic-maui, the AS poled out would be in the long run faster.

Marty
05-31-2013 02:34 PM
Alex W
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

That was someone else's photo where it was poled out. I've never used my pole before, I just got it about 5 or 6 weeks ago.

I was going to pole out the tack. I'm climbing the mast tonight to install a topping lift.

I have the asym and use it cruising. We occasionally race the boat and I'm trying to use the pole on the tack of the asym to bring it farther to windward and run deeper.
05-31-2013 02:30 PM
GeorgeB
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Alex W, in your previous photo you had the Asym winged out like genoa going wing-on-wing. Are you planning on doing this some more? Or are you planning on poling out the tack like a symmetric? If the latter, then yes, you will need a topper and fore/after guys to stabilize the pole tip. The advantage of poling out the tack is you can actually project the kite out to windward and get better drive out of the sail. From a competitive racing standpoint, you will pay a PHRF penalty for having an “articulating bowsprit” (but who said anything about racing). Akites are designed to be sailed at hotter wind angles of 150 -165 degrees. You can “cheat” on the angle by increasing the distance between the kite and main with a bowsprit. Projecting the luff to windward is even better. The boats that do better under akites are the lighter, (planing? Think the ones Paulo likes) faster boats that get better VMG at hotter angles. Our boats are best served with symmetrics so we can hold a deeper angle. But on the other hand, A-kites are simple to rig and are easy to use single or double handed.

In your previous picture whisker poling out the clew, your boat is forced to go DDW which is slow. Remember that even spinnakers have a luff and leach and the air flows in only that direction. Don’t think by whisker poling out the clew, you are reversing the airflow over the sail.
05-31-2013 02:04 PM
Alex W
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

I'm bringing back this old thread.

I got a pole and have started rigging for it. When using the pole with the asym on the tack I assume it should be setup just a symmetrical spinnaker, with a topping lift, down haul and guys?

I'm starting to think that I should just get a symmetrical spinnaker as well for racing. Being able to use the lazy sheet as the after guy saves a fair amount of rigging, and jybes will be easier as well.
04-16-2013 10:12 PM
blt2ski
Re: Dousing a cruising asym without blowing the tack?

Alex,

You would have been better off to use a pole to move the tack right, at least how I see your pic, with the clew to the left, ie opposite side. NOT wing on wing if you were to use a pole.

Marty
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