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Anchor Setting Woes

12K views 63 replies 30 participants last post by  Maine Sail 
#1 ·
The Admiral and I have had some issues getting our anchor to set recently needing several tries to get it done.

We are in the Chesapeake (read: mud) and use a Danforth as our primary. 30 ft of chain and usually at least 5:1 scope

I am on the anchor and the wife is driving. General process is approach drop spot, coast to stop into wind, drop anchor and enough chain to hit bottom plus extra while boat begins to drift in reverse. Typically avoid piling chain on top of anchor.

Trying to narrow down the problem (procedure, anchor drop, driving, anchor type/condition). Would like to set it on one attempt and feel comfortable anchoring in tight quarters. Also, would like to reduce the discussions between anchor person and helms-lady :) and not be those people who have attempt a set 4 times.

Once set we usually back down under throttle and are good to go.

Advice welcome

Josh
 
#31 ·
I use only about 15 feet of chain outside coral latitudes and have had no reason to change. It has worked for me for the last 40 years of mostly full time cruising. One advantage of using less chain is you can tug on your rode and feel if the anchor is set, something you cant do with al chain rode. If you use a 30 lb kellet of lead( one litre) You can let your anchor hit the bottom, then put the kellet on before letting out more rode. You can do that with several kellets . This enables you to recover them by lifting one at a time, instead of having to lift a lot of weight simultaneously, as you would with chain.
 
#32 ·
Since some have mentioned anchor alarms, I've found Boat Monitor to be the best so far. I used to use Anchor Watch.

Boat Monitor allows you to establish the location of the anchor, not just the location of the smart phone, then establish whatever size alarm zone you like. You can also make a part of the swing off limits.

What I really like is its graphic that has a persistence line showing you moving around. Its one thing for an alarm to go off, but its nice to see if you're dragging toward it, especially if you are down below and not able to see relative movement.

Best yet, you can sign onto a companion website when ashore and see the exact image that your device aboard shows. Very, very cool. It will also send you a text message if the alarm goes off.
 
#36 · (Edited)
I get the impression that the Chesapeake is soft mud in many places. I'm surprised that nobody here has yet mentioned the folly of using too much chain with a danforth style anchor in soft mud.

You heard right, there can be such thing as too much chain :eek: (in special circumstances).

If the mud is soft, and the chain heavy, the shank of the anchor can pivot BELOW the flukes. You drag with the shank buried and the flukes stay on the surface. This is especially problematic if you set your danforth style anchor with a lot of scope. I know this is counter-intuative to setting every other type of anchor, but I think it's your problem.

Quote from an email I got directly from Fortress anchors in 2008 on this very subject:
..."One downside of using more chain is that with any "pivoting fluke" type of anchor, such as the Fortress, Dan forth, etc. the extra weight of the chain can sink the flukes below the shank [he actually means sink the shank below the flukes--Med] if you are using a long scope in a very soft bottom, like soft mud. I have attached an image which may help you to visualize this.

To prevent this from happening, you simply need to permanently install the Mud Palms on the anchor, which are included with all Fortress anchors. The Mud Palms will lift the rear of the anchor up and force the flukes to take a more aggressive angle into the bottom. You should also use a shorter scope in a soft bottom when initially setting the anchor, which will keep the shank up so that the flukes will dig in first."...


From Fortress's website (see point #8):Fortress Safe Anchoring Guide


If you have a bunch of scope out, 30ft of chain and you're setting it slowly, odds are it won't work in soft mud. I've had this happen and confirmed what was happening with scuba gear. You are better off setting your danforth with short scope (fortress recommends 2:1), to ensure you are pulling up on the stock enough that it is not below the horizontal and only after it's set you can add your scope to 5-7:1 and back up on it hard.

There is nothing wrong with a danforth style anchor area for your bottom types. I have over a hundred nights at anchor on a Fortress and it worked, but setting it was tricky and required skill. Sometimes I had to try 4 times (but usually got it first time).

While I say there is nothing wrong with the fortress/danforth (I have 3 fortresses aboard) I STRONGY prefer the Mantus anchor or the genuine Bruce for their setting ability. If you get an Mantus, Rocna, or Mansun you'll never go back. Actually... now that I mention it, has anyone ever heard of anyone going back from a next-gen anchor? ;)

Happy anchoring and thanks for the good question!

MedSailor
 
#38 ·
Even with the new gens I find they set very well when I snub at 2:1 and apply light pressure to get the initial bite and penetration through a soft top layer.. I then drop to 3:1 or so and apply slightly more pressure and then 4:1 and more and then 5:1 etc. By 5:1 it is usually able to hold our boat at 2600 - 2800 reverse RPM.

I have had our Mantus fully set at 2:1 and then hold full reverse wide open throttle.. I find the Mantus sets slightly faster than both the Manson and Rocna but at that point we are talking inches. I have actually gone back to the Rocna as primary just because it fits better on the bow roller than the MS or the Mantus and they all perform tremendously well..

I think my next toy may be an Ultra but I just can't bring myself to have a SS "bling" anchor, despite how well designed it may be... Unfortunately that anchor can not be built in galvanized due to design...:(
 
#37 ·
Me I like chain ... we have Bruce hanging off 90m chain plus the same of rope. Provided we find the bottom that seems to hold us pretty well.

Previous boat was originally CQR with 35m chain. OK but the CQR seemed not to like soft sand. Replace with Rocna and no further problems provided I let out good scope.

An older boat of mine came with a Danforth, 2m chain plus rope. I had all kinds of problems with that setup .... surprise surprise .... but once I added an extra 20m of chain all went fairly well though to be honest I never fully trusted the Danforth.
 
#41 ·
Great video
We got struck by lightning a few years ago and now I cower inside when its around.
I was amazed by how flat the water was, I am used to even short storms generating more of sea.

It does illustrate some of the difficulties comparing experiences.

This video was in much the same wind strength but the sea state is very different.
Sorry its not very good quality there is to much wind-borne spray to risk a good camera, but its only short.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/...6-94EA-0C8A7FB26D3F-1262-000001D58FC80F70.mp4
 
#42 ·
Great video
We got struck by lightning a few years ago and now I cower inside when its around.
I was amazed by how flat the water was, I am used to even short storms generating more of sea.

It does illustrate some of the difficulties comparing experiences.

This video was in much the same wind strength but the sea state is very different.
Sorry its not very good quality there is to much wind-borne spray to risk a good camera, but its only short.http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/...6-94EA-0C8A7FB26D3F-1262-000001D58FC80F70.mp4
The wind was coming off the shore during the peak and my boat was only about 300-400 yards from shore. In the peak of the storm I estimate the waves at my boat to have increased from 0" to 1.5 + feet in a matter of about 1 minute.. That is a pretty good chop for 300-400 yards in that short of a duration....
 
#43 ·
I wonder about trying to get it to set too early. It is likely to go in at too shallow an angle, and with later strain pull out.
The problem with backing down under power is prop walk then the bow blowing off. I prefer to let the boat move with the wind. Then let it settle and come under tension then apply power. It is a bit difficult to let out the right amount of scope as you move back so there may be some slack initially so it takes a bit of time to let it tension up naturally. But at that point the angles are such that it will dig deep.
 
#45 ·
And remember at 2 am in the rain when a 40 knt squall hits nobody ever says I need a smaller anchor and less chain.

Which is why I have a 60lb CQR and 220 feet of 3/8th chain with a second similar set up in reserve. This on a lightish 44 ft mono. Why all chain well I have had a rope rode on a stern anchor chafe through in less than 2 hours. Coral is abrasive.

The boat came with a manual anchor winch, I changed this for and electric one and regard this as a piece of safety gear. Coming in tired after a long sail I am willing and able to reanchor several times to get a good grip.
 
#46 ·
Rope definitly doesnt work in coral. I use wire rope on my drum winch down there.No justification for anything but mostly rope in the high latitudes where there is no coral.15 feet of chain is plenty up here, especially with a 30 lb kellet.
 
#51 ·
I thought crevice corrosion was something that happened to stainless steel in an anerobic environment, not galvenized steel.

Good thing there are no bolts in your current setup to worry about.... you DID get that chain/anchor splice made up without having to use a shackle right? ;)

MedSailor
 
#50 · (Edited)
I'll check those as we go along and let you know how the thing weathers, Minne. I know that's a concern of some.

The customer service is insanely awesome though. Greg K. personally put that anchor on my boat because I couldn't get down when they were open. I'll always support a company like that.

The gravy is - it's a great anchor at a great price.
 
#56 ·
Used to use a Danforth. It held pretty well but sometimes would not set in the Hudson River mud. A clam shell would jam in the flukes and keep it from setting.Switched out to a Kingston Plow with 27 feet of chain, and it sets every time on my C&C 29 II.
I've used the plow in mud, sand, and ?? with great results.
 
#58 ·
You also asked a question about communication between "anchor crew" and helmsman.

We have worked out simple signals to indicate

anchor down (arm straight up)
reverse (arm out, crooked elbow, hand down)
add speed (hand up, make circles)
idle (arm out, flat hand, horizontal back and forth)
cut engine (hand slice across the throat)
anchor up (same as anchor down, but since you cannot do both at once, there should be no confusion with that)
forward (arm out, crooked elbow, hand up)
go in given direction (point)

I listen to the change in engine noise to verify that the helmsman (my wife) received and acted on the signal. If not, I repeat til she does (she may have briefly looked elsewhere to check relationship with other boats). I need not look back unless I feel like it.

What this does not address is when the helmsman decides we have to change or abandon the process. It has happened only a few times to us, and we have not perfected that. I think a simple whistle would alert me to look back and then go check at the cockpit what's going on, or have some signal such as

abandon process
too close to other boat (point at boat, horizontal space between hands)
too shallow (vertical space between hands, narrowing)


If I come across something not covered by this, I walk back to the helmsman to say what is going on and what to do since talking from the foredeck, through a dodger, with the engine idling away requires shouting... and that is just entertainment for anyone anchored nearby.

As to the anchor set up itself, we have 100' of chain that covers us for most of our anchorages, supplemented with 150' of line, only 20-30' of which has ever been in the water. The more chain, the happier (and more mud collected, of course). If you constantly deal with mud (we do not) I would certainly invest in a high power bow hose-down!
 
#59 · (Edited)
The Finesse Method of Anchoring (no engine, no heavy gear, no next generation anchor, no windlass and no extended length of chain):

For all you new sailors, to dispel the ridiculous notion that you need to buy all this heavy equipment and used complicated procedures to anchor effectively, here is my normal procedure - how I sailed in and out of my anchorage, and used light weight gear, to anchor my 7,800 lb Pearson 28, under sail only, this past Saturday night at Sandy Point in Great Wicomico River (I don't remember ever having "anchoring woes" or dragging anchor in the many years I have been sailing):

1. Drop jib as I approach anchorage;
2. Remove 12 lb. Danforth 12H anchor (YES just 12 lbs.) and 6 feet of chain from cockpit locker and secure to foredeck;
3. Remove 200' ft. of 3/8" (YES only 3/8") three-strand nylon anchor line and secure to foredeck;
4. Tack into anchorage under mainsail only (NO ENGINE);
5. Drop mainsail just downwind of intended anchoring place;
6. Drift into position slowly with no sail and no engine;
7. Gently lower anchor by hand until it just touches bottom;
8. Slowly allow anchor and chain to drop and pay out 100' ft. of anchor line as boat drifts away from anchoring point;
9. Cleat anchor line; and
10. Note with satisfaction how easily and effectively boat is anchored.

Next morning:

1. Ready boat to sail;
2. Put on gloves;
3. Raise mainsail with wheel locked;
4. Pull in anchor line over bow pulpit hand over hand until line is vertical;
5. As anchor breaks free and chain appears, move line back and forth to clean chain and anchor;
6. Raise anchor and place on foredeck;
7. Unlock wheel, trim sail and set auto pilot;
8. Remove anchor from line and replace in cockpit locker;
9. Coil anchor line and replace in cockpit locker;
10. Raise jib and trim; and,
11. Sail away.

That's right folks - no next generation anchor, no engine, no length of chain, no windlass, no backing up the boat - all easily down by hand with no particular strain. The anchor, chain and line are light enough to be easily lifted out of a cockpit locker - no heavy weight in the bow and no need for a windlass.

Although I now have a 12 lb. Danforth, a 20 lb. Danforth, a 25 lb. CQR, and a 7 lb. Mantus, I have never had to the need to use anything more than the 12 lb. Danforth.

The most important elements:

1. Pick a good anchorage - the single most important of all;
2. Plan it out;
3. Take your time; and,
4. Allow the boat to set naturally to anchor.
 
#60 ·
That's right folks - no next generation anchor, no engine, no length of chain, no windlass, no backing up the boat - all easily down by hand with no particular strain. The anchor, chain and line are light enough to be easily lifted out of a cockpit locker - no heavy weight in the bow and no need for a windlass.
The Danforth can do very well in goog holding ground with a constant direction of pull.

What is the strongest wind you have anchored with the 12 LB Danforth?
 
#63 · (Edited)
Obviously, the focus on the anchor in this thread is misplaced. A Danforth 12H is a common, standard anchor for the Chesapeake. Three strand nylon is a superior anchor line, if you are using rope, because of its stretch, which absorbs energy. You do not need any more than 6-10' of chain. Why make life difficult? Sailing is supposed to be easy, fun and relaxing, not some quasi-military exercise with night vision goggles, an all chain rode and an electric windlass.

What matters is the choice of anchorage and the technique. The bigger picture is that finesse beats brute strength in virtually all aspects of sailing, yet brute force and equipment are the favorite topic of the forum threads. A novice who reads this thread would believe that he or she needs a $400 next generation anchor and 200' of chain in order to avoid dragging. Nonsense. The focus on conquering/overcoming nature helps sell unnecessary equipment.

The next generation anchor manufactures would love everyone to believe its the anchor type that matters.
 
#64 · (Edited)
Obviously, the focus on the anchor in this thread is misplaced. A Danforth 12H is a common, standard anchor for the Chesapeake. Three strand nylon is a superior anchor line, if you are using rope, because of its stretch, which absorbs energy. You do not need any more than 6-10' of chain. Why make life difficult? Sailing is supposed to be easy, fun and relaxing, not some quasi-military exercise with night vision goggles, an all chain rode and an electric windlass.

What matters is the choice of anchorage and the technique.
The bigger picture is that finesse beats brute strength in virtually all aspects of sailing, yet brute force and equipment are the favorite topic of the forum threads. A novice who reads this thread would believe that he or she needs a $400 next generation anchor and 200' of chain in order to avoid dragging. Nonsense. The focus on conquering/overcoming nature helps sell unnecessary equipment.

The next generation anchor manufactures would love everyone to believe its the anchor type that matters.
A technique that leaves you with no idea how the anchor is set, or if it is adequately set, for what may lie ahead, is not a technique. IMHO it is like crossing your fingers and going to Vegas. Lucky better describes an anchoring process that does not involve adequately setting your anchor or testing how it's set by backing down hard and simulating higher wind conditions/load on your anchor.

I have seen far to many boats wind up on the rocks because they used the rock on a rope technique and relied on luck & drift to set their anchor. In a very high percentage of the dragging incidents we've witnessed, and we see lots of them here in Maine, properly setting the anchor was not part of the process. The "Gilligan toss" may work well for Hollywood but often not well enough in the real world..

You can get lucky for a while but eventually the luck runs out... That's not the wicked witch under the house it is his Danforth.........:)


This guy never set his anchor and dragged into us. He got "lucky" for about 14 hours until the wind picked up a bit then he dragged into us... Yes he is still in his PJ's because he went to bed using the "Gilligan toss" technique and felt comfortable with it. This time his luck ran out, and at 6:00 am, lucky us...... Arghhh......


Most any good reference to setting an anchor includes how to "power set" the anchor. Fortress anchors lays this out in STEP #3 as the POWER SET..

Fortress Anchors:

Fortress Anchors said:
#3 "Power Set" Your Anchor

Know that your anchor is properly set! Back down very, very slowly.
Then as the anchor begins to set, very slowly increase the load with your
engine.

You can simulate the force of the wind by using your engine's thrust to set your
anchor to a predetermined load. Match your boat's total maximum horsepower
and hull type in the table above to determine how hard your boat can "Power Set"
your anchor.
West Marine also has a good reference:

West Marine Advisor said:
Setting
Anchoring Techniques

To ensure that an anchor "sets" well, apply tension to the rode so the anchor penetrates the bottom. Do this by making fast the line and applying power in reverse. If your boat moves, reset the anchor and try again.

Many boaters make only a half-hearted attempt to set the anchor by putting the boat in reverse for just a few seconds. To be sure the anchor is set you must put a reasonable strain on the rode for a reasonable length of time. Your boat should surge forward when you back off the power, indicating that you have put some strain on the rode to test the anchor set. We know of no way to ensure that your anchor will hold other than by pulling on it hard.
 
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