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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing > Sizes of genoas
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Thread: Sizes of genoas Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-18-2013 10:23 PM
tidewaterv
Re: Sizes of genoas

this is why racing has fallen into difficult times..true get measurement correct.but petty ass complaints should require a remeasurment of complainers as well as defendant...suggesting someone is a cheat is wrong.&has hurt the sport..
07-16-2013 11:29 PM
paulk
Re: Sizes of genoas

People have suggested that measuring sails can be fraught with errors. That is why there is often a single measurer in a PHRF zone whose job it is to measure each sail that needs it. (Usually people take the sailmaker's word for it being 100%, 130%, or whatever.) Since the % of the jib is theoretically calculated based on the size of the actual foretriangle, it might make sense to measure THAT first. Raking your mast will make the fortriangle area smaller, for example. That might increase the % of your jib in relation to it. Making the mast form more of a right angle to the deck should make the foretriangle larger, so your jib would have a smaller %. Even so, as others have noted, the difference in ratings is in the range of +/- three seconds per mile: not huge. Different wave conditions could have a bigger effect on boats in your fleet than that.
07-11-2013 12:08 AM
Maravilloso
Re: Sizes of genoas

I appreciate all your comments, more minutes from second place, they get angrier.
We love racing, and I wanna be as legal as possible, after your comments, I'm sure
we arernīt goig to have any problems whith the 162%.
Progreso, in Yucatan, has the best wind around the yucatan Peninsula. WE have a club races whit about 20 to 25 boats.
any time that you want to come, your are welcome.
Jose Palma
Tactician of maravilloso
huges 38 mk 1
07-10-2013 11:32 PM
blt2ski
Re: Sizes of genoas

Locally the % is based on fortriangle area, no the LP! My max LP is 153, but I get 155% of my foretriangle area! So My sail maker made me an LP of 155, ended up with a code 6 jib, so got hit with a -3 rating! not what I really wanted frankly. But that is how it goes.

I would have to do some looking in the local rules myself, but a 155.1 to 160 or so would be a -3 hit, a sail larger than 160.1 would be a -6.........

Spin and main sail areas are equal, in that you get a certain size based on a given triangle. Spin is 160% of the J and I square measure, IIRC about 120% of the e and P triangle for the main, including the roach measure.

Locally if racing 1d, you need those sails, but if strickly phrf, you can have another set of sails that meets the phrf rules. So if 2d is a 110% jib, you can use a 155% if racing phrf rules. OR where the 1d requires say dacron sails, you can have string sails in a phrf race.

Marty
07-10-2013 05:00 PM
RainDog
Re: Sizes of genoas

In the causal racing I have done people lie through their teeth on their handicapt forms. Granted some of that might be because it is easier to make something up than to find out the real answer.

Challenging a BS form seems honorable to me, but splitting hairs between 160 and 162 seems kind of lame in a casual race.
07-10-2013 04:06 PM
jgeissinger
Re: Sizes of genoas

The reply wasn't directed to you. I was not talking about cruising boats, and I was not talking about Sailrite sails. Their sailplan database is a very useful and valuable tool. I am sorry I ever tried to give helpful advice to the OP. Later.
07-10-2013 03:10 PM
overbored
Re: Sizes of genoas

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgeissinger View Post
It is silly to get in a pissing match on an internet forum, and I try to avoid it. That being said, the largest "standard" genoa on virtually all boats is 150%. Go to the Sailrite sailplan database, which is essentially the data used by sailmakers, and look up your boat. I'm not just making this stuff up.
P.S. I have been an official measurer for two different classes of one design boats and sort of know what I'm talking about.
not really a pissing contest, you are talking about cruising boats and the thread is about sizing a sail for racing PHRF . raced with your Sail Rite sail lately. ask any sailmaker how many racers have them make a 150 when they are allowed to have a 155 without taking a rating points hit.
One design is way different then PHRF. when racing PHRF many One designs are allowed to use a 155 even when the one design only allows the stock sails
07-10-2013 02:56 PM
jgeissinger
Re: Sizes of genoas

In reply to Aelkin: It is silly to get in a pissing match on an internet forum, and I try to avoid it. That being said, the largest "standard" genoa on virtually all boats is 150%. Go to the Sailrite sailplan database, which is essentially the data used by sailmakers, and look up your boat. I'm not just making this stuff up.
P.S. I have been an official measurer for two different classes of one design boats and sort of know what I'm talking about.
07-10-2013 02:39 PM
overbored
Re: Sizes of genoas

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgeissinger View Post
To ditto Shnool above, there is absolutely nothing wrong with filing a protest for a suspected equipment violation. That being said, it is far more likely that your measurements are not accurate. I've never heard of a sail maker making a 160% (or 162%) genoa. 150% is the common measurement, with 155% allowed as the max to account for stretch and variations. It is easy to be slightly off when you measure the 90 degree angle at the luff to get the accurate LP measurement. Something more obvious, like a 170% (which are occasionally made) might be more apparent. I would bet money you have a 155%.
The only reason to make a sail to a 155 is to race PHRF
PHRF racers do not buy a sail cut to 150 and wait for it to stretch to a 155, if it is stretched that much it is wasted. we buy a sail cut right to the max measurement and they really do not stretch but if they do you have it re-cut. the LP measurement is the easiest measurement to preform put the tape end on the clew and measure the smallest length you can get at the luff by moving the tape up and down the luff
07-10-2013 01:29 PM
aelkin
Re: Sizes of genoas

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgeissinger View Post
That being said, it is far more likely that your measurements are not accurate. I've never heard of a sail maker making a 160% (or 162%) genoa. 150% is the common measurement, with 155% allowed as the max to account for stretch and variations. It is easy to be slightly off when you measure the 90 degree angle at the luff to get the accurate LP measurement. Something more obvious, like a 170% (which are occasionally made) might be more apparent. I would bet money you have a 155%.
jg - fairly new fella here, but I don't know that I can agree with you on this one.
I have a C&C 35MK1, and the 'standard' No 1. Genoa used for racing these boats is 167% (if not cut for roller furling).
My 167% was subsequently cut down to 155%, and my stock #2 150% was cut down to 135%.

I think it's maybe narrow-minded to suggest to someone that just because you've never heard of it, it doesn't exist, and instead imply that the OP can't measure....?
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