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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Curious what you all think of this video
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-20-2013 06:37 PM
Plumbean
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
Here is what one of the Melges 32 sailors wrote, which was originally posted on a since deleted page:
“The most exciting part of the day today though was again having to sail through the optis and seeing those kids faces. At one point I think we almost took out a few of the little tykes when we had to sail past their gybe mark. It was ultra sketchy and although I am sure they dug it, their parents were probably pissed. I mean we are a 32 foot boat sailing at 19 knots through their course. Dangerous indeed, but its not our fault that the PRO’s set up the courses so close to each other and started at basically the same times which all but guaranteed some conflict. The part of sailing here is that there is usually a lot going on, kiters, windsurfers, 49’ers, etc. It’s just part of the deal.”
And, here are a couple of pix.



And, finally, the apology
My name is Filippo Pacinotti and I am the owner of the Melges 32 Brontolo.
Brontolo is racing the Melges 32 European Circuit since 5 years now.
During the 4th leg of the 2013 Circuit in Torbole – Lake Garda – Italy for reasons that I will try to explain in details at the end of this statement my boat during racing sailed through the Optimist Fleet that was competing for their Pre Worlds organized by the Yacht Club of Riva del Garda (Fraglia Vela Riva).
It happened 2 times upwind and 2 times downwind in 2 different days.
Brontolo was not the only Melges 32 sailing there, it happened to multiple boats of the fleet.
I thought a lot about how to start this kind of press release and the I decided to go straight forward:
I have to express my most sincere apologies to 4 groups of people:
• The Kids – especially those who have potentially been scared by our behavior.
• Their Families for the same reason above
• The Coaches that have undirect responsibility on the water for their athletes
• The Optimist International Class that, I imagine, was putted under heavy pressure for what happened.
Let me have even some words for my crew, including the afterguard, that has no responsibility either if some exists.
I could have easily gybed away being the helm in my hands.
Again, on my opinion, there are reasons why this has happened, the helmsman is not looking for excuses but some additional infos should been analized.
Hopefully what above is clear enough.
Now why this has happened?
• North Lake Garda is a very particular place where to sail, crowded and superbusy on the water during summer time (hundreds of dinghies, kitesurf, windsurf etc). It is a place like many knows which obliges you to sail on the extreme border of the racing area (left or right it depends).
• The racing areas for the Optis and the Melges 32 were overlapping. Both racing committees were, on my opinion, not reacting to this fact in the way they could (moving one of the field away from the other even after many complaints).
• Communication between the Yacht Clubs and the racing committes was simply not working.
• Moroever, with the exception of the last day, the starting time for the 2 fleets was basically the same.
• Conflicts were basically guaranteed.
• As a results the “encounters” with the Opti Fleet were usual, I would not say safe but usual.
• While racing we thought was an option to go extreme left and to cross the Opti Fleet we maneuvered to find our hole, depowering the boat letting the kite fly for a while and then proceed until the finish line as well documented in the video posted.
• We thought was safe enough. We did not hit anybody, nobody was even close to be injured, we had no discussion with our racing committee that clearly saw us and many other right there.
• The Melges 32 Brontolo did not infringe any rule letting, on our opinion, enough water for everybody to sail.
To make what has become a long story short this has been a bad day for me, for sure this it is not going to happen again to my boat and I feel sorry for what happened.
At the same time let’s try all to stay objective and understand well that there were too many coincidences not created by the competitors.
Hope this helps.
Filippo Pacinotti
All "hashed out" on Sailing Anarchy.
That apology is NOT from Argo, which is the American boat in these pictures.
07-20-2013 10:38 AM
MarkofSeaLife
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

I've just watched that video for the first time (wifi on-board doesnt let me watch vids) and I am utterly staggered by the two keelboats. Just utterly staggered.

I feel sure it is police actionable even though no one was hit. If I saw those skippers on the dock I would beat the sh!t out of them.

Just totally bewildered.
07-20-2013 07:21 AM
Capt.aaron
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

I love to hate those A$$holes....
07-20-2013 02:55 AM
shadowraiths
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

Here is what one of the Melges 32 sailors wrote, which was originally posted on a since deleted page:
“The most exciting part of the day today though was again having to sail through the optis and seeing those kids faces. At one point I think we almost took out a few of the little tykes when we had to sail past their gybe mark. It was ultra sketchy and although I am sure they dug it, their parents were probably pissed. I mean we are a 32 foot boat sailing at 19 knots through their course. Dangerous indeed, but its not our fault that the PRO’s set up the courses so close to each other and started at basically the same times which all but guaranteed some conflict. The part of sailing here is that there is usually a lot going on, kiters, windsurfers, 49’ers, etc. It’s just part of the deal.”
And, here are a couple of pix.



And, finally, the apology
My name is Filippo Pacinotti and I am the owner of the Melges 32 Brontolo.
Brontolo is racing the Melges 32 European Circuit since 5 years now.
During the 4th leg of the 2013 Circuit in Torbole – Lake Garda – Italy for reasons that I will try to explain in details at the end of this statement my boat during racing sailed through the Optimist Fleet that was competing for their Pre Worlds organized by the Yacht Club of Riva del Garda (Fraglia Vela Riva).
It happened 2 times upwind and 2 times downwind in 2 different days.
Brontolo was not the only Melges 32 sailing there, it happened to multiple boats of the fleet.
I thought a lot about how to start this kind of press release and the I decided to go straight forward:
I have to express my most sincere apologies to 4 groups of people:
• The Kids – especially those who have potentially been scared by our behavior.
• Their Families for the same reason above
• The Coaches that have undirect responsibility on the water for their athletes
• The Optimist International Class that, I imagine, was putted under heavy pressure for what happened.
Let me have even some words for my crew, including the afterguard, that has no responsibility either if some exists.
I could have easily gybed away being the helm in my hands.
Again, on my opinion, there are reasons why this has happened, the helmsman is not looking for excuses but some additional infos should been analized.
Hopefully what above is clear enough.
Now why this has happened?
• North Lake Garda is a very particular place where to sail, crowded and superbusy on the water during summer time (hundreds of dinghies, kitesurf, windsurf etc). It is a place like many knows which obliges you to sail on the extreme border of the racing area (left or right it depends).
• The racing areas for the Optis and the Melges 32 were overlapping. Both racing committees were, on my opinion, not reacting to this fact in the way they could (moving one of the field away from the other even after many complaints).
• Communication between the Yacht Clubs and the racing committes was simply not working.
• Moroever, with the exception of the last day, the starting time for the 2 fleets was basically the same.
• Conflicts were basically guaranteed.
• As a results the “encounters” with the Opti Fleet were usual, I would not say safe but usual.
• While racing we thought was an option to go extreme left and to cross the Opti Fleet we maneuvered to find our hole, depowering the boat letting the kite fly for a while and then proceed until the finish line as well documented in the video posted.
• We thought was safe enough. We did not hit anybody, nobody was even close to be injured, we had no discussion with our racing committee that clearly saw us and many other right there.
• The Melges 32 Brontolo did not infringe any rule letting, on our opinion, enough water for everybody to sail.
To make what has become a long story short this has been a bad day for me, for sure this it is not going to happen again to my boat and I feel sorry for what happened.
At the same time let’s try all to stay objective and understand well that there were too many coincidences not created by the competitors.
Hope this helps.
Filippo Pacinotti
All "hashed out" on Sailing Anarchy.
07-19-2013 07:02 PM
Capt.aaron
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

I love it. I've watched it over and over. The Thing about those kind of A$$holes is, they don't know they are A$$holes. And all kinds of like minded A$$holes come to their defense.
I love to hate those A$$holes, Which of course makes me an A$$hole, but the Kind that knows he's an A$$hole...which is a totally different Kind of A$$hole....I'm an A$$hole on purpose...to Those kind Of A$$holes. It's not like I'm an A$$hole on accident, because I don't no that I'm one.
07-19-2013 06:38 PM
capta
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

Rule 69 - Allegations of Gross Misconduct
69.1. Action by a Protest Committee
(a) When a protest committee, from its own observation or a report received from any source, believes that a competitor may have committed a gross breach of a rule, good manners or sportsmanship, or may have brought the sport into disrepute, it may
call a hearing.

Not being a racer, I had to look it up. Interesting that it doesn't include reckless endangerment?
07-19-2013 06:21 PM
FarCry
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
This will clearly end up in a guns on sailboats discussion.
How about a less lethal option? Issue the Opti sailors some paint ball guns. If another boat decides to barge into their course, let them open up on the offenders. I submit that after a couple of paint ball strikes to the body/head, the skipper and tactician will "see" better wind someplace else!
07-19-2013 06:19 PM
rhr1956
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
This will clearly end up in a guns on sailboats discussion.
Choose your weapon
07-19-2013 05:49 PM
Plumbean
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
I doubt the ISAF could do anything about it. If the race instructions did not exclude that piece of water from the course, and they followed the right of way rules, they haven't technically done anything wrong. If they had been involved in a collision, or some of the Optis were forced to take evasive action even though they had right of way, then the race committee may be able to penalize them, but the ISAF does not run the regatta.
If you have lots of time on your hands, you can wade through the SA thread on this. It includes first hand accounts, including from one Opti sailor saying he had to alter course to avoid getting hit by a port tack Melges, and also indicating that another Opti sailor had his burgee ripped off by a flailing spin sheet from one of the Melges. Also some pretty damning photos, even taking into account camera angles, telephoto foreshortening, etc.

There is also correspondence between the the Opti and Melges classes, copying the ISAF and making rumblings about Rule 69 violations.

Like I said, I'm not holding my breath. See: Ben Ainslie.
07-19-2013 05:26 PM
SchockT
Re: Curious what you all think of this video

Quote:
to think about 12 dudes or more in total counting both crews, concurred on the move. Like a conspiracy to be a$$ holes.
I don't know many race programs that are democracies! I am sure there were guys on the boat that were uncomfortable with the decision, but in the end it is the skipper and tactician that make the call.

Quote:
So am I wrong in my assessment that all of the Optis who hadn't rounded the mark were on starboard tack, and were the leeward boats, and all of the optis who had gone around the mark were being overtaken, and so, every opti that that those Melges boats barged in on had rights, and he fouled like, a couple dozen boats inside of 30 seconds?
Certainly they didn't have right of way, but it is hard to tell if they actually fouled anyone. There was no collision or contact that I can see, and I didn't see anyone who had to alter course to avoid them. It looks like they shot through a gap in the fleet. The camera angle can be deceiving; it is very possible that they had a lot more room than it appears in the vid.

Quote:
It is not relevant which boats had what rights the big boat operators where stronzi (@$$holes).
Perhaps, but unfortunately there is no rule against being an A-Hole!

Quote:
Personally, I hope the ISAF steps in the flicks a couple of the Melges, but I'm not holding my breath.
I doubt the ISAF could do anything about it. If the race instructions did not exclude that piece of water from the course, and they followed the right of way rules, they haven't technically done anything wrong. If they had been involved in a collision, or some of the Optis were forced to take evasive action even though they had right of way, then the race committee may be able to penalize them, but the ISAF does not run the regatta.
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