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Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

253K views 1K replies 138 participants last post by  chall03 
#1 ·
My crewing/captaining luck finally ran out on me, I was shaken but not broken. I need reinvent my luck to continue to sail the great ocean ours.

Here is my daily log while on board a 2002 Jeanneau 43 DS on on route from Long Beach, CA to Diamond Head, Honolulu, HI during the 2013 Transpac Race.

I changed the names of the people involved for now.

Me - rockDawg or RD. as on-board navigator
Jake – Near coastal USCG licensed Captain. Serve as a crew.
Harry - Skipper/Owner – A Japanese national owns a Sushi Restaurant in LA, long time old traditional sailor, but no off shore or long passage experience. Serve as a skipper
Jane – Partner of Harry, co-owner of the Sushi Restaurant. Has no sailing experience. Serve a watch crew as needed
Sheryl – Mother of Jane, 86 yo. No official duty.
Jeanneau 43 – Corporation owned sailing vessel

==========================
Arrived LAX Friday July 5.
Skipper Harry picked us up at the airport. He looks older than his age and on a heavy side, but nevertheless, a kind and humble gentleman. A number of close calls on the way to the marina, he veered off into other lanes on the highway a few times. I hope Harry sails better than he drives, :) but I did not say anything and just sat quietly so he could concentrate on the road.
When we got the marina, Harry had a hard time to find a parking space. Coming from as an exNYC cabbie, he does not how to drive. We were late for the 'First Time Racer' party. The kitchen at the yacht club was closed but Jane, Harry's business partner bribed the kitchen, and they made us a chicken sandwich for each of us. Actually I would have preferred go to Sam Woo to dinner. Oh well, the guests did not have the choice.

-Day 2, Sat, July 6
Clear sunny sky in Long Beach. Oh boy, I really have a hard time understanding Harry's English. We need to develop some sign language. He apologized to us all the time about his language , but this is ridiculous. He has been in this Country for 16 years……hahaha. We leave his marina and head to Long beach. He had me on the helm until we entered Long Beach since I have no idea when I am going. At time I have to rely on my iPhone. His chart plotter on the helm sucks, it is B/W and the screen has no contrast, impossible to read. We moved the boat to Pine Ave Pier, where the race official marina was.

There were other boats there on the pier. Because of space we were docked stern in with dropping anchor at bow. I was not able to convey my idea to Harry, so I drew pictures to show him my suggestion. He agreed and we docked successfully.

I saw lots of big boy toys in the race with professional crews. Our Jeanneau 43 just did not fit in the race. But whet the hell, we are here.
We had the skipper meeting in the late afternoon. I recorded the meeting so that I wouldn’t miss anything. I had zero local knowledge and was not familiar with the local names, so it was hard for me to follow what they were saying without a chart/map.

Obviously the meeting was not geared towards newbies like us. After the meeting was the party. Good food and good entertainment but one has to buy your own drinks in the party. Jake bought me a coke for the evening.

-Day 1, Sunday, July 7:
A bit disorganized, lots of things to do were found not done. We tried to help as much as we could. I found out the provisioning was not done as planned. Sat phone and other safety equipment not installed done. Harry refused to buy a pair jack lines from West Marine. He insisted to use an old 3/8” round sheeting rope. Some of the re-inspection from the race committee was not just a joke. Just a check in the box deal. Totally unfocused, Jane hauled in a wind generator she obtained from eBay and asked me to install for the trip. Are you serious? I asked in my head.

We canceled our trial spinnaker run with Sam of Norht Sail in San Diego because Harry needed to go shopping for our food. Sam was a 17-time TransPac veteran. It was good that I could at least meet him in person. I tried to pick his brain as much as I could for the race. He gave me a lot of local knowledge. Jake and I wrote down as much as we could. I felt much better as I had sometime to study the chart and the weather report. It seemed to all come together well and scientifically made sense to follow the 1020 isobar.

Rocky start at the top: not sure what was going on, but there must have been big fight between Jane and Harry. Harry barred Jane from boarding the boat until 2 hours before the race started. I got a text message from Harry that was intended for Jane to read. Things were not looking good, I felt uneasy. I finally intervened and made both shake hand and start the team again.

Jake was also having second thoughts and considered backing out. I sacrificed so much for this race/voyage, I felt like I was being let down. Jake asked me what to do. I told him that I was committed to this trip and if he and Jane wanted to back out, I was comfortable sailing the boat alone with Harry. I told him I know Jeanneau well. We would be fine if Jake backed out.

Day 0, Monday, July 8: Race Day.
An unexpected and totally unnecessary event. Harry blew up over the coffee filter left on the coffee maker by Jake. It was a half hour rage and total shut down all operation. My goodness, the man needs an anger management course badly. He threw things all over and around him. He was insulting Jake and everyone else claiming this is his house,….. blah, bah.
I don’t think it was a big deal. The filter was still warm and he should have given Jake a chance to clean up. After all, we were being pulled all different directions for the last two days by two bosses. Well…. I didn’t care, I just want to sail the Pacific and nothing can stop me know.
{Edited: Never knew this was just the beginning of an ordeal that I have never expected}.

When my daughter was in her second grade, I think she had a better organization skills than that of Harry and Jane. We rushed and rushed in a totally disorganized way, I didn’t really have time to think. Somehow, I thought we would have plenty of time to work out the details once the rush is over when on route to Hawaii. Jake reminded Harry to top off the water tanks but he left the dock anyway to head to the starting point. Both Harry and Jane were equally controlling.

We were 20 min late to the start of the race, but I was happy to see that we were underway; at least I was thinking we will have time to learn or adapt Harry’s style. As I often said to other on the net. It is his boat, his house/castle, his rules unless my life is endangered.

Day 1 and 2, Tuesday and Wednesday, July 9 and 10:
I am totally confused with this trip. Stress and fatigue were high. We were pulled into different directions at all time, like working with two bosses. We were being watched at all time. Micromanagement is too mild a word on this boat. How about nano- or pico-management?

And how about constantly remind you:
1. You don't know and thing!!!
2. You are a very bad crew!!!
3. You are a crew and an employee, We don’t need your opinion, You should do what you are told.

Day 3, Thursday, July 11
Calling it quits.
Harry exploded with his temper. We had no idea what the hell he was screaming and jumping up and down and stomping his feet like a five year old. He does not use sentences to communicate, just a single words. He continued screaming at you louder and louder with the same mispronounced word. No one knew what he meant, including his partner for 13 years.

Day 4, Friday July 12
Weather is getting warmer. Water temp went up to 71 degree from 68. Partial sun is out for the first time. Our jib was tore and need to be repaired. Although it was a bit too early and we were far from the trades wind, at 2 pm. We flew the spinnaker with heading toward HI and wind was on 160 degree. Doing 6 to 8 knots. Argh, finally we got the speed that I was hope for.

Day 5, July 12.
Too upset and too exhausted to enter daily log. Micromanagement and constant yelling finally wore me down.

Day 6, July 13:
Conditions were not getting better despite Jane talking to Harry. There was a significant mistrust towards Jake and I. We were not allowed to talk to each other and not permitted to sit at the navigation table and must stay in our berth, per Jane orders. In despair, Jake contacted a military ship “HS V2 Swift” nearby for rescue, claiming unsafe environment. Unfortunately Harry and Jane refused to let us leave the boat. The captain of Swift talked on the radio that they would monitor for 3 hours. They took away the VHF radio and sent Swift away. We were officially their prisoners.

Without any hope of getting off the boat and still has at least 2 weeks of sailing, I tried to repair the jib and the jib track on jib furler. Jake hoisted me up to the forestay to repair the tract and lower down the jib. I ended up being hoisted 4 times. It was no fun and impossible to hold on. The bosun chair was so poorly made, it cut out my circulation from the waist down.

I was starting to put a doubt on this voyage what would if this bad situation continues. The boat was doing about 4 knots, and every day there are about 2 to 4 hour of yelling and the boat moved less than 3 knots. We are going to run out of food before seeing land.

Day 7, July 14:
Things seem getting better since I raised hell or should I say I exploded. Jake and I stopped working, Harry apologized to me telling me that he did not properly maintain his boat for this trip. The forestay track came apart because the loosen allen screws. He thanked me to go up the forestay to fix the track. Otherwise, we have to return to Long Beach.

I warned him that I made no apology of my behavior of rising hell if he ever endangers my life again. He ordered me to go on the dock immediately to take the spinnaker down with my harrass. At the moment of his rage, I obliged and went on the deck with Jake to take the spinnaker down. That was stupid of me.

Day 8, July 15:
Cloudy again
Since I was ordered to stay in my berth, I did not do any watch. When I was up, I was informed the spinnaker was down, Harry claimed it was a wild gybe or should I say he was not good enough to sail at night with the spinnaker. I told him to use autohelm if needed to control the sudden wind changes. But he avoids and claim that autohelm is dangerous.

The repaired jib at least held up. But we were moving very slowly again.

Conditions are getting worse. Blame games begins. It is apparent that it is their boat, it is their decision. They don't care how long it takes to get to Hawaii. Both Jake and I want to get out this situation as soon as possible.
Jake and I set up the spinnaker again. We were doing quite well and got the speed up. A few hours later, one of the snap shackles came loose and caused the spinnaker fly like a kite. We carefully got spinnaker safely on deck and just used the jib and main sail. Wind was good and we are doing about 6 to 7 knots.

Day 9, July 16:
Every day seems like just another explosion. Life on this boat sucks big time. They think we are here to be their servants. Constantly being humiliated, we can't even trim the sails until we are asked. WTF!!!
Jake and I sewed and repair the bottom part of the spinnaker so that it won't rip further up the sail. We have no control where we are heading where the wind is. Harry just take to rhumb line 243 degree, But we worked all day.

Jane took away the sat phone preventing Jake from downloading the weather grib file. Harry has a problem controlling his temper and totally lacks people skills, but Harry is not a bad person. Jane is an evil, manipulative, and controlling liar. She appears she controls Harry until he blows up.

Day 10, July 17
Got up early in the morning and found out Harry took us directly north for almost 45 nm. WTF. Now we need to spend a whole day sailing back south. Wind died again.

We saw a j40 passing us. They did not even look at us or wave. They depart 2 days behind us. We are hardly moving.

Day 11, July 18:
Jake and I stayed watch from 10 to 4 am. We had a good run with the spinnaker doing 6 to 7.5 knots at all time, we use the autohelm to get us through some hairly situation. It was the best we had for this trip. After more than 7 hrs, Harry came to relieve us. Less than 5 min at the helm. He lost control of the spinnaker and it suffered a total system collapse. We rush back on deck with total disbelief. We knew it would require 5 to 6 hours of me and Jake working hard to get the spinnaker up again to sail in decent speed.

Both me and Jake worked franticly to prevent any further damage to the spinnaker under a total darkness with 17 plus wind. I almost killed myself and I decided I must quit in the dangerous situation. Jake and I want back to the cockpit and told Jane we could not work under this condition. In less than two hours, it would be dawn. We would try again to fix the fouled spinnaker.

At day break, Jake woke me up and get ready to rescue the spinnaker that was stuck permanently on the forestay. After 3 hours, fight with the wind we got it down and fly the spinnaker again.
The rest of the day, we sailed ok. Me and jake tried to dominate at helm as much as we could. Because we don’t want harry at the helm to fuuk thing up. If things fuuked up, it is me and Jake to fix the problem.

Day 12, Friday, July 19:
Mutiny at dawn
Got 2 hours sleep in 24 hours, me and Jakeues were on the helm all night until 4 am. Handed the helm to Harry and within 30 min the emergency whistle blew and rushed to deck with my half naked body and harness. The spinnaker collapsed and fouled. The guy line fell. WTF!!!
Jake and I fought like hell and battled 15 knots wind with huge sail of the spinnaker, and tried to save the spinnaker. We finally reattached the guy and cleared the fouled lines went back down to sleep. We were very lucky this time.

Must be less than 5 mins, the whistle was blew again, what the **** now. I bet my blood pressure went through the roof. The spinnaker was hopeless wrapped on the forestry. After 2 hours, Jake and I took down the damaged, torn spinnaker.

Mutiny is the only way to survive. I begged Harry to use the autohelm to control the spinnaker or we quit. We gladly put our lives on the line so many times (6) and we were only half way to Hawaii. We could not do this anymore. Like all the other times, they refused to use autohelm. I instructed Jake to use my satphone to call Dave Cort (Race Committee) The boat's satphone was no Longer accessible to us. I spoke to Dave begging him to help us to resolve the problem. He refused and claimed that is not their problem and we must resolve ourselves. I told him that this had become a safety issue for the crew members. I asked him to contact the CG for us and have the CG to call the owner. He hung up on me.

Because of poor reception, we moved up to cockpit to call the CG. Harry came behind and attacked Jake and use his arm around his neck and tried to get our sat phone and throw it over board. I struggled with him and he turned around and picked up the winch handle trying to strike Jake's head. I blocked his arm from hitting Jake. I dared him to strike me. But I was in a combat mode to block and struck his nose. He hesitated for a second and I grabbed and threw the handle away. Jane jumped in the midst of this for our phone, I grabbed her hands and pushed her to the starboard side of the cockpit and sat still. I told Jake to escape into the v-berth with the phone.
I shouted both of them with fouled language that they were no match with my strength and speed. 'Don't be stupid'!!!

I went to the v-berth after Jake and locked ourselves in. Harry stepped on the hatch, preventing us from opening the hatch for air and better reception.

I had my iPhone with me and CG number. We contacted the Norfolk region and worked ourselves to west coast region. I asked Jake to call CG, since he speaks perfect English with un-detectable Jewish New Yorker accent.

After explaining the situation to CG, the remaining question was to ask CG for advice on how to take control of the boat legally. Under what situation we must follow to get us safely to Hawaii.

If we don’t take control for the boat and sail her properly, our sails will suffer more damage and water supply will become an issue. We would be in trouble. We were totally out of CG Helo range. The wild gybe that Harry causes because his inability to sail at night, put me and Jake a greater danger.

Our water is dangerously low. Jake only given 1.5 L bottle of water to drink each day. And we are carrying an 86 year old lady who has no idea what is going on around her.

The CG informed us to deescalate the situation best I know how while he seeks legal advice. Lt. Daniel Han asked us to call back in an hour.
=======================

I will download the rest from my iPhone later.
 
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#480 ·
This whole water kerfuffle mystifies me. The boat in question tips the scales at about 10 tons. Somehow I really SERIOUSLY doubt that filling the tanks would have made much of difference in her performance. I think the skipper just forgot to top them off before he left. He sure doesn't seem to have put a whole lot of thought into much else (like a decent sail inventory, organizing a shakedown cruise or two, making sure that HE knew how to fly a spinnaker, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera).

For that matter, why did "Good Ol' Skippy" opt to go to the Big Island, rather than Oahu? At the time he made that decision they were far enough north that the difference between going to Hawaii and going to Oahu couldn't have been more than half a day or so.

Finally, how is "Skippy" going to get his boat back to SoCal? Is Chef gonna crew for him?
 
#481 · (Edited)
This whole water kerfuffle mystifies me. The boat in question tips the scales at about 10 tons. Somehow I really SERIOUSLY doubt that filling the tanks would have made much of difference in her performance. I think the skipper just forgot to top them off before he left. He sure doesn't seem to have put a whole lot of thought into much else (like a decent sail inventory, organizing a shakedown cruise or two, making sure that HE knew how to fly a spinnaker, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera).
It does affect trim... quite a lot... and if you're in race mode, you certainly don't want to carry water in the wrong place if you can help it at all because, depending on where the tanks are located, it can definitely slow you down.

Never mind the water, I've known people to shift their entire engine and drivetrain a couple of inches forward or back just to get the balance right.. and then use Velcro tape to hold up ceiling linings just to save the weight of screws. :rolleyes:

Finally, how is "Skippy" going to get his boat back to SoCal? Is Chef gonna crew for him?
:laugher :laugher :laugher
 
#487 ·
If you go over to the SA site under the title of "86 year old in the pit" there is a picture of the boat with Shirley. I get the feeling that she may well have been the most competent person aboard that boat and her telling the "story" may well be the most accurate. I still don't get the need for a "film crew", but who knows the reasoning?
 
#491 ·
Probably the only person involved I would take on my boat :laugher

Jake - seriously - assuming one mutiny on the resume doesn't keep you from ever getting another ride, you owe it to yourself to get on a boat with a competent and semi-sane skipper and crew to see how things are done. See how watch schedules are set, how the crew races and practices together, does MOB drills, goes to Safety-At-Sea seminars, and 1,000 other things you never saw on your trip.
 
#488 ·
?

No way I have better judgement than to get on a boat for 2000 miles with the Captain.

Just saying.

Do not extrapolate my comments about Jake's and RD to mean I think this Captain is anything but incompetent. Had he had crew with experience it would compensate somewhat, but we know that didn't happen with difficult results
 
#492 ·
I've only been sailing for a few years and crewing on a local j105 for just this summer only, but FWIW, here is my take:

"Harry" was in way over his head. He was inexperienced in both sailing and skippering. He had zero ability to manage either his boat or his crew. This was obviously apparent to the more experienced crew that turned him down before RD and Jake enlisted. However, these two gents did not have the experience under their belt to realize that Harry was incompetent.

From what I've been reading, the Transpac race is skippered and crewed by best of the best with only dedicated racing boats specifically built and outfitted for the task. Aquarius was a fish out of water and should not have been in the race from the start. That was all Harry's doing. You don't race with your 90 yo mother on board. Sorry. A three hour tour around the Del Boca Vista harbor, yes. Racing, no.

The hell with chain of command and law of the sea and NOR's or whatever. This isn't the Navy and this boat didn't belong in a race the way it was being run. Those rules do not apply. RD and Jake sensed disaster it but it was only confirmed after they had already departed. They had every right to compel Harry to either turn around or make it safely to the closest port. They were misled from the start. Add to that the possibility that you may run out of water then they had all the more reason to do what they did.

Frankly, I give them credit for at least trying to stay in the race and continuing on with the hope that they would be penalized rather than disqualified to actually finish the race, ala the movie Cool Runnings when they carried the bobsled over the finish line or when a hurt marathoner walks across the finish line as the sun is setting and everyone else has gone home.

They did what they could to urge the skipper to alter his plans, including asking for help from the race organizers, CG and the US Navy. But RD and Jake only resorted to physical force when it was being used on them.

If I get were to get into a car as a passenger and realize the driver was drunk, I wouldn't sit quietly and wait till we got to where we were going. Harry was simply incompetent and once I realized I had indeed put my life in his inept hands I would have tried to do all that was legally (by US law) and morally right to remedy the situation.

Chef and Sal, you guys are racers. But this boat and its crew were not. At least not by the standards you judge them by. I can put racing decals and numbers on a '78 chevy nova and enter it into the daytona 500, if they let me, but I'm no race car driver and a nova is no race car. Simply put, you guys are professional racers, the transpac is a professional race and Harry had no business being in that race and misrepresenting himself and his boat. I'm glad that races like these are open to amateurs. But if you are one, you better represent yourself as such and make it clear to the crew who are putting their lives in your hands.
 
#494 ·
FYI the laws pertaining to mutiny do not differentiate between racing, cruising, good, or bad skippers ;)

Not saying I would say YES SIR and sail over Niagara Falls or something, but we teh Interwebs Juriez is far from 100% on if things had got that far.
YMMV and IANAL

I've only been sailing for a few years and crewing on a local j105 for just this summer only, but FWIW, here is my take:

"Harry" was in way over his head. He was inexperienced in both sailing and skippering. He had zero ability to manage either his boat or his crew. This was obviously apparent to the more experienced crew that turned him down before RD and Jake enlisted. However, these two gents did not have the experience under their belt to realize that Harry was incompetent.

From what I've been reading, the Transpac race is skippered and crewed by best of the best with only dedicated racing boats specifically built and outfitted for the task. Aquarius was a fish out of water and should not have been in the race from the start. That was all Harry's doing. You don't race with your 90 yo mother on board. Sorry. A three hour tour around the Del Boca Vista harbor, yes. Racing, no.

The hell with chain of command and law of the sea and NOR's or whatever. This isn't the Navy and this boat didn't belong in a race the way it was being run. Those rules do not apply. RD and Jake sensed disaster it but it was only confirmed after they had already departed. They had every right to compel Harry to either turn around or make it safely to the closest port. They were misled from the start. Add to that the possibility that you may run out of water then they had all the more reason to do what they did.

Frankly, I give them credit for at least trying to stay in the race and continuing on with the hope that they would be penalized rather than disqualified to actually finish the race, ala the movie Cool Runnings when they carried the bobsled over the finish line or when a hurt marathoner walks across the finish line as the sun is setting and everyone else has gone home.

They did what they could to urge the skipper to alter his plans, including asking for help from the race organizers, CG and the US Navy. But RD and Jake only resorted to physical force when it was being used on them.

If I get were to get into a car as a passenger and realize the driver was drunk, I wouldn't sit quietly and wait till we got to where we were going. Harry was simply incompetent and once I realized I had indeed put my life in his inept hands I would have tried to do all that was legally (by US law) and morally right to remedy the situation.

Chef and Sal, you guys are racers. But this boat and its crew were not. At least not by the standards you judge them by. I can put racing decals and numbers on a '78 chevy nova and enter it into the daytona 500, if they let me, but I'm no race car driver and a nova is no race car. Simply put, you guys are professional racers, the transpac is a professional race and Harry had no business being in that race and misrepresenting himself and his boat. I'm glad that races like these are open to amateurs. But if you are one, you better represent yourself as such and make it clear to the crew who are putting their lives in your hands.
 
#512 ·
The hell with chain of command and law of the sea and NOR's or whatever. This isn't the Navy and this boat didn't belong in a race the way it was being run. Those rules do not apply. RD and Jake sensed disaster it but it was only confirmed after they had already departed. They had every right to compel Harry to either turn around or make it safely to the closest port. They were misled from the start. Add to that the possibility that you may run out of water then they had all the more reason to do what they did.
I vehemently (if that is a strong enough word) disagree with that. In fact, for me, that is the crux of the matter on this thread.

If something happens to one of the crew or the boat, the captain of that boat has the ultimate responsibility. If someone get hurt or lost at sea, it is his responsibility. THe buck stops with him and you can bet the lawyers land-side would agree with that if one of his crew got hurt.

Boating, in my opinion, has become too recreational. In what other endeavor can a person take command of a item without so much as a learner's permit and have so many people 's lives resting on their decision? How many Sea Rays are sold every year to people who have never driven a boat? How many Hatteras? How many sailboats? How often on this forum do we get a clown with ZERO sailing or offshore experience ready to sail to the carrib or S America or whatever and wants crew or asks which boat he should choose? And on this thread were the crew members (and captain) of this boat really experienced enough for the endeavor?

Like I said before, I think that people fail to appreciate the incredible responsibility put on a captain when they step on his boat. That does not change just because this is a recreational boat versus the US Navy. The sea does not care. The waves and weather do not care. THe law does not care. It is an old tradition and it is a good tradition. In the day of five minute fire truck arrivals and hospitals at every corner, many people forget that when you are out there, you are on your own. As such, it forces (or should force) the captain to have his crap together because he is legally and justifiably at fault for everything that happens on his boat. With that in mind, the idea of arguing with the captain, usurping his authority, or taking over his vessel is (and should be) a matter of last resort and only in dire circumstances. Mutiny (which I do not think RD or Jake really did) should be dealt with harshly, and legally, even on a recreational boat because the implications for the captain are still severe.

Were RD and Jake justified in what they did? I am not sure... I have not heard the other side of the story. But in doing it, they had better have exhausted all other options first and truly been in danger. Some of the key difference between me and others is that I hold the captain primarily responsible for everything that happened. All of this (or most of it) could have been identified long before the race started. He should have gotten to know the crew better and let the crew get to know him better. THey should have had more shakedown cruises. They should have had a very clear discussion beforehand on the water and supplies and how they would be rationed. THey should have discussed the chute and how and when they would fly it and each persons abilities. They should have had a clear understanding on the use (or lack of) the AP and things that would DQ them. That is NOT RD's or Jake's responsibility... that is the captains. I am still miffed that they shot off across the ocean with the miniscule amount of preparation they did. I think if the weather had ever turned bad, it really could have been life/death.

If the captain had been a leader, and had done all of these things, yet RD or Jake took over and broke the rules, then yes, I would probably have exactly the same view as Nick. But Nick, I suspect that you by nature and habit take care of all of that stuff before the boat leaves the dock? The crew and expectations are very clear before the dock lines are thrown off, right? So you place yourself on this boat, reading what you had read, and put yourself in the shoes of the captain and (rightfully) come unglued. Quite candidly, I think your bar is a lot higher and had you been captaining that boat, I suspect none of it would have happened because the prep you put in beforehand... and NOT because of your physical abilities or how you maintain your authority after the boat leaves the slip. Big difference.

This has been a great thread. It should be mandatory reading for anyone thinking about hoping on a boat as crew or captains looking for crew. It doesn't even have to be about racing. It's not. It is about the reality you face when you take off to sea, about how large the ocean is, how small the boat is, and how important it remains that respect, leadership, and camaraderie be maintained.

My opinions.

Brian
 
#535 ·
July 4, 2012
3 children were killed off long island when a 34 foot Silverton, clearly overloaded with 27 people on it, capsized.

No charges where filed despite the fact that it was actively investigated by the local D.A. As there was no criminal negligence, I'm sure the insurance company would have to pay any claims if they arose. (The victims' parents were family of the boat owners, so perhaps this may be why no claims were made).

By your logic, the parents of the dead children would bear the blame for allowing their kids on that boat, despite the fact that they may have had no knowledge of what constitutes an overloaded boat.

So, the criminal justice system decided the captain actions weren't criminal. And you can't necessarily blame the dead children's parents for not knowing enough about the capacity of 34 foot Silvertons.

So where does the fault lie? I'm sure most here would agree that the blame lies with the captain. Yet the captain is a free man and his finances probably untouched.

What if one of the adults on that boat had raised issue with the captain? What if he or she called the coast guard on a cell phone and the CG said, "Well, there are no laws saying that there can't be 27 people on a 34' silverton, so we can't really do anything."
I know the analogy is not perfect here, but I hope you get the gist.
In the example I cited in my previous post...a very good friend of mine and his insurance company paid out $6M. I can't speak for your example or your D.A. I can tell you what happened in this instance.
 
#581 ·
In the example I cited in my previous post...a very good friend of mine and his insurance company paid out $6M. I can't speak for your example or your D.A. I can tell you what happened in this instance.
This sounds like an awful experience.

I do have a few questions/observations.

First, I wonder what the basis for liability was, and how the insurance played into it. It would not surprise me if the $6M was the limits of the owner's policy. Was there a finding of negligence? Or was the crew member covered as an additional insured? Incidentally, these types of settlements are typically covered by confidentiality restrictions, so please don't respond if doing so would open up that can of worms ...

Second, I think this is a red herring, when it comes to the question of the captain's authority. Liability for injuries suffered by a crew member is certainly a concern for any captain, but that is a very different thing than the question being debated here, which is what authority does the captain have to make decisions and run the boat.

As to the latter point, my personal view is that because the buck stops with the captain (i.e., the liability issue) that the captain has (and should be afforded by the crew) a great deal of latitude in the exercise of his/her authority. On the other hand, that authority can be wielded in different ways, from acting like a dictator to soliciting opinions of everyone involved. Personally I prefer the latter approach -- I want to earn the respect of my crew (and learn from their experience and opinions), not demand it. This was the way I was raised and I think it works much better than acting the tartar.

I also don't think the Captain's authority is absolute. At some point if the Captain is making decisions that are grossly incompetent or erratic, to the point where the boat/crew are in serious danger, the Captain's authority is and should be diminished.
 
#496 ·
Estar over at SA posted this:

Estar, on 04 Aug 2013 - 06:17, said:
I presume you found the current US law related to mutiny (below):

18 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 107 - SEAMEN AND STOWAWAYS
Sec. 2192 - Incitation of seamen to revolt or mutiny
From the U.S. Government Printing Office, U.S. Government Printing Office Home Page

§2192. citation of seamen to revolt or mutiny
Whoever, being of the crew of a vessel of the United States, on the high seas, or on any other waters within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States, endeavors to make a revolt or mutiny on board such vessel, or combines, conspires, or confederates with any other person on board to make such revolt or mutiny, or solicits, incites, or stirs up any other of the crew to disobey or resist the lawful orders of the master or other officer of such vessel, or to refuse or neglect his proper duty on board thereof, or to betray his proper trust, or assembles with others in a tumultuous and mutinous manner, or makes a riot on board thereof, or unlawfully confines the master or other commanding officer thereof, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 800; Pub. L. 104-294, title VI, §601(a)(8), Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3498.)
Historical and Revision Notes
Based on title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., §483 (Mar. 4, 1909, ch. 321, §292, 35 Stat. 1146).
Minor changes were made in phraseology.
Amendments
1996-Pub. L. 104-294 substituted "fined under this title" for "fined not more than $1,000".

AND . . . . .

"In 1995, the Supreme Court was again faced with the question of who qualifies for "seaman" status. In Chandris, Inc. v. Latsis, O'Connor again wrote the majority opinion and here laid out two elements necessary to qualify as a seaman under the Jones Act: "The worker's duties must contribute to the function of the vessel or to the accomplishment of its mission, and the worker must have a connection to a vessel in navigation (or an identifiable fleet of vessels) that is substantial in terms of both its duration and its nature."
 
#499 ·
Actually, I think the next section is more applicable:

§2193. Revolt or mutiny of seamen
Whoever, being of the crew of a vessel of the United States, on the high seas, or on any other waters within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States, unlawfully and with force, or by fraud, or intimidation, usurps the command of such vessel from the master or other lawful officer in command thereof, or deprives him of authority and command on board, or resists or prevents him in the free and lawful exercise thereof, or transfers such authority and command to another not lawfully entitled thereto, is guilty of a revolt and mutiny, and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 800; Pub. L. 103-322, title XXXIII, §330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
Historical and Revision Notes
Based on title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., §484 (Mar. 4, 1909, ch. 321, §293, 35 Stat. 1146).

Punishment provision for mandatory fine and imprisonment was rephrased in the alternative so as to vest power in the court to impose either a fine, or imprisonment, or both, in its discretion.

Amendments
1994-Pub. L. 103-322 substituted "fined under this title" for "fined not more than $2,000".
 
#500 ·
In the case of a recreational event such as this, I think the case would pivot on the definition of "work" (related to the definition of "Seaman") in O'Connor's opinion.

Though I'm not a lawyer, I don't see a real connection in this case.
 
#503 ·
Over 500 posts because a member here had a bad experience in a race. This all started as a cluster # and it still is one.
RD has not been back for a while and I don't think he will sue because there is nothing to win, and it would likely stop him from getting any rides in the future. Bad press is not a good thing. Jake has not mentioned suing anyone that I have seen, and seems to be the most rational of the crew. However, the posts have now moved to mutiny laws. Why? Is anyone planning a mutiny in the near future that this would be beneficial to know? Hell, we cannot even agree on how much water there should be per person per day so the jury would have to spend weeks just getting to an acceptable number of gallons.

This post could have been written by the old lady if the crew had included Chef. I think that mutiny would have definetely happened, winch handles would have been swung, and the old lady, as the only survivor, would have sailed in peace...finally....to Hawaii single handed.
She might have even won her division if she had not been DQ'd for the auto pilot usage
before she was a solo sailor. Maybe they would have given her an exception for her pain and suffering.
 
#511 · (Edited)
Maybe the captain wasn't so stupid. He knew he was going where he wanted, when he wanted and he controlled everything, down to the food and water. He probably perceived these incidents as disputes, or arguments. Remember there was a language barrier.

And he apparently didn't charge them with anything, or if he tried to, no one believed him. Mutiny sir? Isn't that your boat over there where you docked it? Is anyone injured? No? We looked at you track, seems about like the other boats sir. No major or unusual deviation. Oh you disagreed about sails? I see. Have a nice day sir.
 
#515 ·
"when I asked the commodore on the phone "
Yeah, one would hope the Commodore of a YC would be clued in, but the final word in these matters comes from a Protest Committee, not the Commodore, and their opinions may vary.
I have seen most of a fleet round the wrong mark entirely (there were two marks with the same buoy number, but the racing instructions seemed clear enough to us) and I have also seen most of a fleet round a mark on the wrong side (again, the instructions were clear but it wasn't the "logical" rounding) and in both cases, the PC and the Commodore said "That's true, but since most of the fleet got it wrong, we won't penalize it." Which instead of course radically penalized the folks who bothered to get it right.

Bottom line, the rules don't rule, unless it goes to a USSA appeals procedure.


As to "mutiny", I thought only crew could mutiny. And crew is not defined as "anyone on board" it is usually defined as paid, dragooned, or conscripted bodies under some obligation or compulsion to serve the captain. Captain can't bring charges of "mutiny" against his unpaid guests, now can he? Or did I miss the W4 and 1099 forms here?
 
#522 ·
"when I asked the commodore on the phone "
Yeah, one would hope the Commodore of a YC would be clued in, but the final word in these matters comes from a Protest Committee, not the Commodore, and their opinions may vary.
I have seen most of a fleet round the wrong mark entirely (there were two marks with the same buoy number, but the racing instructions seemed clear enough to us) and I have also seen most of a fleet round a mark on the wrong side (again, the instructions were clear but it wasn't the "logical" rounding) and in both cases, the PC and the Commodore said "That's true, but since most of the fleet got it wrong, we won't penalize it." Which instead of course radically penalized the folks who bothered to get it right.

Bottom line, the rules don't rule, unless it goes to a USSA appeals procedure.

As to "mutiny", I thought only crew could mutiny. And crew is not defined as "anyone on board" it is usually defined as paid, dragooned, or conscripted bodies under some obligation or compulsion to serve the captain. Captain can't bring charges of "mutiny" against his unpaid guests, now can he? Or did I miss the W4 and 1099 forms here?
Well Rockdog was the one saying he was going to contact the California labor board, so he seemed to think he was an employee. His travel expenses were supposed to be paid, I am sure that would be considered compensation. By the way it sounds like RD is familiar with the labor board.

Bottom line is that no one on board was prepared for the trip. The captain was unprepared, and does seem to have a record of poor people skills as the crew that bailed out proves. The crew was obviously unprepared, though they seem to think they were, but being that it was RD's first time flying a spinnaker shows he was not experienced enough for this kind of race (being a down wind haul) and Jake had never been offshore. They had plenty of warning before they left that they should have bailed out. Certainly they noticed that the captain was at the least unorganized, one would think they would have checked on water as they all have responsibility for safety. Did they check to see if there were life vests and a life raft? Any threat of real danger was only perceived and obviously hyperbole, as they could have gotten water at any point if really needed by various methods (Coast Guard, shipping vessels and fellow yachtsmen) and it was not like they had lost electronics or anything. For me it would have been that there was no practice or advance meetings. Heck you do that for beer can racing, offshore come one. The crew was willing to not follow the rules from the get go. (long before the invented danger of running out of water they were using the auto pilot) It is obvious that RD and Jake had there own interests in mind, wanting to get experience offshore on someone ease's dime, not being part of a racing team from the start.

So we have a story of invented danger, with poor leadership and poor seamanship on all accounts. Sounds to me like someone wanted a reality show, why else have a camera crew there at take off and arrival? That really puzzles me, why have a camera crew? Perhaps a friend to take a few snapshots and a hug when you get back, but a camera crew? Seems someone had something brewing from the get go, wanted to be the next Jersey Shore or something.
 
#517 · (Edited by Moderator)
It seems there was only one DNF in Division8 of the TransPac.

Jeanneau 43 Sun Odessy DS
9/DNF 9.0

Yeah, but it didn't take a minute to find.

Which might be corporate owned as shown by the USCG:

CHANTIERS JEANNEAU Year Built: 2002

Length (ft.): 42.1

Now, how a corporation owns a recreational vessel eludes me, since normally all the assets and functions of a corporation are, well, commercial by nature. But I'm so easily baffled by these things.

Identifying information removed from this post by Jeff_H, SailNet Moderator. The moderators have requested that all specific identification of the owner and boat be avoided. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
#526 ·
Now, how a corporation owns a recreational vessel eludes me, since normally all the assets and functions of a corporation are, well, commercial by nature. But I'm so easily baffled by these things.
The business buys a boat, uses it for business purposes, then writes off the expenses on its taxes. The only thing that surprises me is why doesn't every company already have its own boat!
 
#518 ·
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the record, the moderators have discussed this thread and believe that it is a useful discussion. That said, the moderators have agreed, and are asking members to please avoid posting information which specifically identifies the parties.

Thank you,
Jeff
 
#519 ·
I find myself in total agreement with Brian as to the captain's responsibility.

It also the responsibility of the individual crew members to chose their "rides" prudently and take on checking for their own safe

. Getting blue water expetience is far different than Transpav racing. The allure of practicing on someone else's boat without the associated costs doesn't mean jyou signed up to be pampered.

I know you tale the responsibiltu seriously, as do I. One of this unqualified Captain's biggest mistakes was to take these two crewmen with no experience , sight unseen, relying on whatever they claimed they had done

I would want someone with me the same or more qualified in case I was incapacitated. The mote skill the better. But he was forced to scrape the bottom as the talent pool had already been taken.

It started wrong, continued to go wrong, escallated . Lessons learned

Dave
 
#521 ·
I find myself in total agreement with Brian as to the captain's responsibility.

It also the responsibility of the individual crew members to chose their "rides" prudently and take on checking for their own safe

. Getting blue water expetience is far different than Transpav racing. The allure of practicing on someone else's boat without the associated costs doesn't mean jyou signed up to be pampered.

I know you tale the responsibiltu seriously, as do I. One of this unqualified Captain's biggest mistakes was to take these two crewmen with no experience , sight unseen, relying on whatever they claimed they had done

I would want someone with me the same or more qualified in case I was incapacitated. The mote skill the better. But he was forced to scrape the bottom as the talent pool had already been taken.

It started wrong, continued to go wrong, escallated . Lessons learned

Dave
I have to disagree with you on a few points:D

*Offshore racing is much harder than offshore cruising, the blue water experience is greater, not less. Crewing is riskier than taking your own boat out. Lots of unknowns, no matter how much you vet.

*From what I've read, RD and LG seem to have a good handle on sailing a boat. Did they have a stellar performance on this trip? No, but no one could of. They did the best with what they had to work with.

* BTW-as far fetched as some of the story sounds, anyone who has spent longer than a week offshore knows it could totally happen. And anyone who has been way way offshore, would also know that with the complete dysfunctional dynamics aboard, of the likes we see here, it could of been much much worse.

*I think RD and LG got that boat safely to land, in spite of the obstacles.

To gain experience you have to get experience ( genius, i know)
In my 25,000+ offshore miles, twice I have had a captain become incapacitated.
One time was during a storm on a sinking boat, offshore. I kept the boat afloat and on course. At the time, my total sea time was just a couple thousand, didn't know jack. Good crew is not always about knowledge.

My 2cents.
 
#520 ·
I'm not familiar with these kinds of races so bear with me. Aren't there some kinds of basic requirements in order to be admitted to participate? Shouldn't some of those requirements, if any exist, address the issue of crew competence, possibly in the form of some kind of required shakedown cruise? It seems to me that this kind of problem could be avoided if the crew had to actually work together before signing on. Do they just accept anyone willing to pay an entry fee regardless of experience or SOME sort of qualifying information, relying on release forms to shield themselves from liability? A questionnaire with wording such as, "How many sea miles have this captain and crew recorded together?" Circle the best answer: 0 miles 25 miles 100+miles. If any answer is <100 miles then the boat does not get to participate.
 
#523 ·
So this is all going to turn out to be a Fox reality special, sponsored by the restaurant for business purposes, which explains why the corporation owns the vessel.

Makes sense to me.

Smurph, your logic would be good except that it ignores one major consideration. All the organizations and events for several decades have been concerned with getting more participants, more publicity, more public interest in sailing. Until an event gets to be so big that it is unmanageable, they pretty much want every potential warm body until serious safety issues arise. And they usually let someone like the ORC decide what that means.

Which is not to say you don't have a point. You can't just buy into NASCAR and get on the track.
 
#527 · (Edited)
RD, Jake, After all the angst over the spinnaker...it would appear that you averaged roughly 4.86 kn for this trip. ( 2100 nautical miles/18 days) ??

Wouldn't it have been better to simply take the spinnaker down per the captain's wishes/orders on his shifts? Seems like a lot of time was lost and valuable energy expended unnecessarily messing with the spinnaker. His boat, his money, his rules..his race to lose..

Expend less energy = drink less water. It just seems like you could have acheived the same results ( 4.86 kn avg.) on a 43' boat with main and genoa..and had a more relaxing trip. Or just fly it on your shifts, and douse it for his shift.

Let's face it, aquarius was never going to be competitive in this race with 4 crew and an 86 y.o passenger. This was a delivery. Did the GF ever take shifts at the helm?
 
#532 ·
Weinie,
The point of this is you should find out if the captain is nuts before you leave the dock, not after you are at sea. The captain is responsible for the boat and crew. If you decide to tie his butt up because YOU think he is incapable, then YOU are responsible. The courts would have a heyday with you for your actions if you cannot prove that he is nuts. Just as RD, it is opinion...not fact! CD is correct!
 
#538 ·
RD and Jake would have been stunned to discover that most of us disconnect the hydraulic ram from the steering system on the way TO HI. LOL.[/QUOTE

With all their "experience" in spinnaker flying wonder how many times they would have wrapped it without an auto pilot.:D:D:D:D:D
 
#539 · (Edited)
Btw, like Robert Duvall said in Apocalypse Now "Charlie don't surf"...Charlie being your AP. it's just going to drive to an AWA. It can't feel the boat load up as the bow buries in the back of a roller, and IT can't/won't pump the wheel a couple of times to drive the bow down and break the boat loose to set her surfing. Using the AP, you're just really sailing in stop and go traffic.

And you're missing all of the real fun of doing the race.
 
#542 · (Edited)
http://67.15.208.115/printstory.php?sid=5538&storySection=Local

Garr died last year.

That's another thing that bothers me about these two...the entire bit about "life threatening actions". What they were asked to do is just normal ocean racing stuff. Maybe I'm immune to it, having been naked under my foulie pants and barefoot on deck at midnight enough times.
 
#544 ·
Holy crap! Some serious badassery going on in that story:

Meanwhile, four Air Force reservists were on their way. Stationed at the Kirtland Air Force Base's Special Operations Squadron in New Mexico, they were in Portland for special training when they got the summons.

The reservists were flown on a MC-130 Coast Guard transport airplane in the middle of the night to the middle of the Pacific Ocean, according to an Air Force statement.

Shortly before midnight, the reservists parachuted 3,500 feet into the pitch-black ocean. After hitting the water, they inflated their Zodiac boat, gathered their medical equipment and traveled about a half-mile to the tanker where Garr was being treated for dehydration.

Once on board the tanker, the reservists inserted a chest tube in Garr's hemorrhaging lung, gave him medicine and massaged his legs to keep the blood flowing.
Oh, and dude...

Maybe I'm immune to it, having been naked under my foulie pants and barefoot on deck at midnight enough times.
TMI.
 
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