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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Previous owner wants property tax credit?
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Thread: Previous owner wants property tax credit? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-16-2013 05:40 PM
TakeFive
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nias View Post
Thought you guys might want to know what action I took. I sent him a reply saying show me documentation that you paid pro-rated taxes on the front end when you bought the boat as you want me to do, and I will pay you the amount that you are asking. This way I'll feel like it's fair and won't feel like I am getting shorted in the long run by the way the California property tax cycle works.

Enough of this already! I need to go sailing!!
Sounds like a plan. And conforms to the "pay it forward/pay it back" ethic, so it's got good karma.

But one thing's for sure. No matter what you do, someone here will suggest that you should have done something else.
08-16-2013 05:33 PM
Nias
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

Thought you guys might want to know what action I took. I sent him a reply saying show me documentation that you paid pro-rated taxes on the front end when you bought the boat as you want me to do, and I will pay you the amount that you are asking. This way I'll feel like it's fair and won't feel like I am getting shorted in the long run by the way the California property tax cycle works.

Enough of this already! I need to go sailing!!
08-16-2013 12:34 AM
mark2gmtrans
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
Not sure why you have to pay $133 a year for USCG documentation. I just sign the form and send it in for free.
You have to pay the $133.00 plus any other applicable fees the first time you register as a documented vessel, which is what I was talking about since the OP was talking about a new registration.

For those who would like to have the information from the USCG, they can find the fee schedule here USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, Fee Page

Application Fees
Initial Certificate of Documentation $133.00
Exchange Certificate of Documentation $84.00
Return of Vessel to Documentation $84.00
Replacement of Lost or Mutilated $50.00
Approval of Exchange of COD
requiring Mortgagee consent $24.00
Evidence of Deletion from Documentation $15.00
Late Renewal Fee $5.00
Trade Endorsements
Coastwise $29.00
Coastwise Bowaters $29.00
Fishery $12.00
Registry No Fee Required
Recreational No Fee Required
NOTE:When multiple trade endorsements are requested on the same application, only the single highest applicable fee will be charged, resulting in a maximum endorsement fee of $29.00.

Waivers
Original Build Evidence $15.00
Bill of Sale Eligible for Filing and Recording $15.00
Miscellaneous Applications
Wrecked Vessel Determination $555.00
New Vessel Determination $166.00
Rebuild Determination - Preliminary or Final $450.00
Certificate of Compliance (46 CFR Part 68) $55.00
Filing and Recording Application Fees:
Satisfaction of Mortgage and Related Instruments No Fee Required
Notice of Claim of Lien and Related Instruments $8.00 per page
Mortgage and Related Instruments $4.00 per page
Bill of Sale and Instruments in Nature
of Bill of Sale
NOTE: This includes a transfer of interest shown
on the reverse of the COD.

$8.00 per page
Miscellaneous
Abstract of Title (CG-1332) $25.00
Certificate of Ownership (CG-1330) $125.00
Attachment for each vessel with same data $10.00
Certified Copy of Recorded Instrument $4.00
Certified Copy of Certificate of Documentation $4.00
NOTE:Certificates of documentation, Letters of Deletion, Certificates of Ownership and recorded instruments faxed and emailed in combination to mailing will require an additional Certified Copy fee of $4.00 for each item.
08-15-2013 11:59 PM
Minnewaska
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

I have no objection to making a good will offering, if the buyer chooses. Just understand that's all it is and the seller could prove to be a jerk and still not cooperate. Buyer's call, cards are in their hands to do as they please.
08-15-2013 09:50 PM
svHyLyte
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
What are we talking about in terms of Real $ ?

$1,000 ?

I don't think you owe anything. But, I guess you have to ask yourself if you think you might need/want to call the PO for information about the vessel in the future and what value would there be to him taking your calls. Would you have signed the contract if box 10-a were checked?

I might propose a 3 way split. The seller, the broker and you each pay a 3rd..of the bill.
If it's a grand, then that's $333.00 apiece. Let him deal with the broker, and make sure you can verify that the tax bill gets paid.

It keeps the lawyers out of it. Spreads the pain equally and potentially preserves your ability to have good future dealings with both the broker and the PO.

Or you can simply, walk away.

When I purchased my last house, both brokers took a cut in their commission to make the deal happen.

imo...The broker screwed this deal up, so they do have skin in the game if they want a good reference.
As a practical matter, the "Tax" is likely between $500 and $750. Despite the protestations of others (posts above) in re: prorations of taxes, while we lived there, we have bought and sold 4 boats in California and, in each case, prorated taxes as of the date of sale. That said, think of this. In each case after we sold a boat, for weeks if not months afterward, we/I discovered items that belonged to the boat we sold and I would pack them up and ship them off to the buyer against the possibility that he might need them. Likewise, when we bought our last boat--that we have now--for months after we closed we discovered things aboard the boat that the seller certainly couldn't have intentionally included in the sale. A (very nice/expensive) Standard Horizon hand held radio, a very costly hand bearing compass, a collection of navigation tools from the US Navel Academy, Cerca 1965, (the Seller was a retired Captain in the Navy); video tapes of family vacations etc., etc. etc. We duly packaged these up and sent them off to him. Likewise, in his garage, he found/had many spares and parts from the yacht that, over time, he packaged up and sent off to us, including many parts that are now all but impossible to find. Had we parted on less than amicable terms, or with ill will, does anyone think these exchanges would have continued/happened? I don't think so.

For the relatively little amount that is involved I think the OP/Buyer is a fool for not making an accommodation for the Seller as I suspect in short order he/she will need information/help from the Seller. Taking the FU Very Much approach most certainly has no positive payoffs. But, really, for a few hundred bucks, is the "bad karma" worth it? If that amount is a major issue for the OP/Buyer, he/she is in for a serious wake-up call as to the cost of yacht ownership, particularly in the Peoples Republic of California.

FWIW,,,
08-15-2013 08:55 PM
Tempest
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

What are we talking about in terms of Real $ ?

$1,000 ?

I don't think you owe anything. But, I guess you have to ask yourself if you think you might need/want to call the PO for information about the vessel in the future and what value would there be to him taking your calls. Would you have signed the contract if box 10-a were checked?

I might propose a 3 way split. The seller, the broker and you each pay a 3rd..of the bill.
If it's a grand, then that's $333.00 apiece. Let him deal with the broker, and make sure you can verify that the tax bill gets paid.

It keeps the lawyers out of it. Spreads the pain equally and potentially preserves your ability to have good future dealings with both the broker and the PO.

Or you can simply, walk away.

When I purchased my last house, both brokers took a cut in their commission to make the deal happen.

imo...The broker screwed this deal up, so they do have skin in the game if they want a good reference.
08-15-2013 07:25 PM
aeventyr60
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

Not sure why you have to pay $133 a year for USCG documentation. I just sign the form and send it in for free.
08-15-2013 05:26 PM
mark2gmtrans
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

I am really sitting here with my mouth open thinking WHAT THE HECK! In California they assess a property tax every year on your boat, like it was real estate? What a whacky situation, and it is 1.5% of total value? Holy Moley, what a ripoff.

Here in Texas we have no income tax, you pay the sales tax once, and then you pay a small registration fee for your registration yearly, or you can have your vessel USCG Documented for $133.00 a year and not fool with the state sticker. Either way it is not going to be a lot of money, once again California proves that they really do not want business and commerce to take place in their state.

No wonder people are not wanting to stay in California. This is sort of like the thread on having to pay a ton of taxes when you buy a boat in California, even if you do not live there.

It does look like the seller might need to take it out of his broker, since the broker was the one who missed getting that little mess taken care of in the sales contract. However, you need to make sure that the state of California does not Californicate you by putting a lien on the boat for the unpaid taxes if he does not pay them.
08-15-2013 05:06 PM
imasaluki
Quote:
Originally Posted by imasaluki:1074399
Looks to me it's completely on the buyer and the broker, now go sail your boat.
I meant to say "seller and the broker."
08-15-2013 04:53 PM
denverd0n
Re: Previous owner wants property tax credit?

Ethically-speaking, you shouldn't have to pay it. Legally-speaking, you shouldn't have to pay it.

I would tell him that you are not going to pay it, as that was not a part of the purchase agreement. He won't be happy, but that is what I would tell him. And I wouldn't ask him if he paid the tax for the previous owner, because how will you know if he is telling you the truth?

If he decides to make an issue of it--gets an attorney, or refuses to pay it--then you will have to decide if the amount is worth hassling over. If it is, then you need to spend the money to talk to an attorney familiar with your local tax laws. My guess is that if he doesn't pay it then the state will go after him, not you. But that's only a guess. Only an attorney can tell you for sure and, like I said, you will have to decide if the amount is worth getting an attorney involved.

Good luck.
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