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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Advise needed on dealing over price
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-04-2002 12:34 PM
manateee_gene
Advise needed on dealing over price

Mrs.Mutiny:I cannot fathom if you are for REAL or just JERKING the board around?If your for real?Jeff''s remarks about buying a charter boat are right on the MARK.hAVING SPENT MOST OF MY NON-CRUISING ON THE LEFT COAST! I checked the January Classified Listings in Latitude 38.In the 50-40 section and the 39'' and under section.If you cannot find a boat (I found several) which would be
of type and quality and outfitted for your needs,in your price range!! You sure as HELL WILL NOT FIND IT ON RIGHT COAST!!!!!!!
02-04-2002 10:29 AM
Jeff_H
Advise needed on dealing over price

My best advice is top avoid boats coming out of charter, especially one that has been in charter for that long a period. Charter boats in the Carribean really take a beating. My experience with boats that come out of charter is that they generally need some combination of: New sails, galley equipment (stove&refrigeration) standing and running rigging, engine rebuild or replacement, ground tackle and dock lines, canvas work, instrument upgrades, replacement or rebuild of undersized, out of date, or damaged deck hardware, steering syrtem rebuilds, upholstery, and a wide range of aesthetic and finish issues.

Most (but not all by any means) of the folks that have bought boats out of charter, that I have had personal contact with, have spent far more buying and putting these boats into a condition equivilent to a reasonably well maintained private yacht, than they would have just buying one from a private owner.

$94000 is way to high for a former charter boat in the Carribean that you in California would need to commission in the Carribean and then bring to where ever you planned to be. Your $80K offer is pretty much spot on for the circumstances.

One minor point, I am friends with quite a few brokers and surveyors. At least here on the Chesapeake the boat market is still really quite strong with good clean boats going for very close to their asking prices. I just a couple weeks ago heard of a bidding war on a Tartan 34 that took it above its asking price.

Jeff
02-04-2002 07:47 AM
SailorMitch
Advise needed on dealing over price

Mrs. Mutiny,

Perhaps it''s my anal retentive nature, but I can''t imagine making an offer on a boat you''ve never seen, especially given that this one was in the charter trade. I know you''re doing this from the left coast, which makes it even more important to find a broker to represent YOUR interests and not just those of the seller. Admittedly finding a broker long distance that you can trust won''t be easy. I do suggest asking folks here for recommendations, have that broker find several boats that meet your criteria, and then make a trip out to look at them for yourself. Not that I mind spending your travel dollars, just that may be a lot cheaper in the long run than buying something essentially blind based on the word of someone else who''s primary interest is selling the boat and collecting a commission.
02-04-2002 07:08 AM
Mrs Mutiny
Advise needed on dealing over price

Thank you for all the good advice. The broker is not my broker but the sellers. He is only my broker in that he is the one I am dealing with . I have no broker. The boat is a Morgan 44.5 in the B.VI. It has been in charter for the first part of its life out for the last couple of years. Original owner. That means nothing of course since it was in charter. His orginal asking price 94000. Our offer 80000. We live in California so have not seen the boat yet . I was just thinking that with it having been in charter and Hurricane season coming up so that we will be storing it for 6 months we had so reason to possibily hold firm. also the state of the econ. OH the boat is an 1989. What do you think now ?

M.M
02-04-2002 02:52 AM
Jeff_H
Advise needed on dealing over price

OOPS! That should have read " I had five offers on the boat all were above that 7% figure and the deals did not proceed for reasons *not* related to price or condition.

I also think that I may have misread the original post. In reading it back it sounds like your broker is telling you what he thinks the boat is worth and you have not really come to a conclusion for yourself. That makes your question especially difficult to answer because with as little information about specifics, it is hard to know what the right answer is here.

Jeff

Jeff
02-03-2002 07:15 PM
Jeff_H
Advise needed on dealing over price

There is no really good way to analyze the actual situation from the information that you have given. I am around a fair number of boat deals including two of my own in the past year. I have seen all kinds of differences between asking and selling prices but good clean boats are still pretty rare and are still getting higher prices than they were even a couple years back. 2001, dispite the dismal period in the wake of 9/11, saw more 30 and over new sailboats sold in this country than any year since 1986. I assume that this bode well for the used boat market.

In my two boat deals, selling my boat, I carefully researched what sister boats had sold for, what condition they were in and how they were equipped. I set a price that was a high fair price and which I considered 5% above where I thought a fair price was. I sold the boat for approximately 7% below my asking price. I had five offers on the boat all were above that figure and the deals did not proceed for reasons related to price or condition.

I also bought a boat. I actually negotiated three deals, one on a boat with sufficient problems that I did not proceed to closing after survey. On the boat I actually bought, I had again carefully researched actual sales prices on sister boats and came up with a price range that I thought was fair for the boat that I bought, in the condition she was in. I ended up paying a couple percent over figure that because I knew that there were relatively few examples of the model I wanted available and in the big picture (I intend to own the boat for a long while) that difference was not all that significant. The actual sales price was approximately 20% below the asking price.

With more readily available boats, or if you are not married to a particular model, then you can play hardball and feel freer to walk if you don''t get your offer accepted. But if you are looking at a specific boat that suits you then you need to be more willing to negotiate.

Off hand I think your broker was advising you well (assuming that 10% below asking was a fair price). As a seller you generally consider the first offer to be lower than the buyer is willing to go. So by advising you to come in with an offer 15% lower, yoru broker left you some room to deal up if you had to. Who knows the seller may have accepted your first offer? But more likely than not, a smart seller will try a first hardball counter to see if he can shake you. Depending on the actual amount of the difference between you offer and the seller''s counter, (say if it is more than a $5K difference) I would be tempted to come in just below splitting the difference. The seller might take it or he might out of general principles counter leaving you with just the wiggle room you need. Then again, if you have a good broker he''s probably sized up the situation and is giving you his best advice. It may not be perfect but brokers are no more clairvoyant than you or I.

Good luck
Jeff
02-03-2002 01:06 PM
JohnDrake
Advise needed on dealing over price

Your concerns are not insignificant. Boat pricing and brokers both run a broad range from reasonable to rediculous. I could not determine from your post whether you have your own broker, someone with whom you have some history and have established trust.

To the point. Its been said that boats are generally listed with a 10% reduction in mind. Be that as it may... you need to do a lot of research to find the price you SHOULD pay for any given boat. Bucnet.com and NADAGuides.com are both resources for finding fair market value. I feel that Bucnet is most accurate and is what many banks use as a guide for financing.

When the economy expanded from 1992-2000 and people had a greater feeling of wealth, used boats that had been depreciating steadily actually went up in value. This is a once in a lifetime phenominon, however, many brokers still would like to convince you that it is valid. As we all know, there has been a tremendous contraction in the past two years... unfortunately, many sellers either overpaid for boats in the late 90''s and hope to recoup that or they are still deluded into thinking that boats are worth more than they are. DO NOT be drawn into this. Market forces in the boating industry may lag a bit but they will catch up and, in general, a boat will end up going for what it is worth. If you overpay for a boat now.... YOU will be the one stuck for the loss when you try to sell.

Without specific information, it would be impossible to judge what the boat you are interested in should be sold for. Check on Yachtworld.com for comps...but keep in mind that many boats are still overpriced and it is impossible to judge condition online. Truly good boats seem to be few and far between, however, you should never be pushed into paying more than the fair market value. Check the above resources and then see how the price looks to you.

Best of luck.
02-03-2002 12:58 PM
Oor Wullie
Advise needed on dealing over price

Mrs Mutiny

If I were putting an offer in on any boat it would be well less than 15%. I would offer 2/3 of the asking price, I feel you are being generous with 15%. If I where selling a boat I would be grateful for 15%

Good Luck
02-03-2002 11:41 AM
Mrs Mutiny
Advise needed on dealing over price

I really need advise from some experienced boat buyers. We have been looking for a boat.A few weeks ago a broker E-mailed me about a boat saying he thought we could get it for X price. This was 10% less than the owners asking price. Is''nt this what the owner really wanted in the first place. We offered 15% less than the asking price. The owner countered by only taking a few thousnd off and the broker said ,Why not split the difference which took us right back to the price mentioned. I am a rookie and feel as if I am beinng reeled in. Please help.

 
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