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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation > Donna Lange Update
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Thread: Donna Lange Update Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-01-2007 12:42 PM
Newport41 That does clarify things Cam. I agree, 800Lbs (or was it 400 total?) of steel below the waterline is obviously going to add a bit of stability. But it's a drop in the bucket compared to the weight further down in the keel. From the reading I've done and my experience with various keelboats, a roll over isn't often a matter of a few hundred pounds of ballast. If a boat weighing tens of thousands of pounds is going to get rolled, it's going to get rolled.
As for KB. Well I think we would all agree that bluewater sailing is partly luck, a little more experience, and most of all the ability to solve problems as they come up. Now, could KB have sealed up his boat and jury rig a way to sail to shore on his own? Yes. Do I blame him for wanting to get the hell out of there before the next low hit him? No.
I think being "prepared" has more to do with your own ability to solve problems. Sure having some miles under your belt is very helpful but some people are just lacking common sense, ingenuity, and the drive to be self sufficiant. I don't think you can criticize KB but you can give Donna her dues.
05-01-2007 12:15 PM
camaraderie
Robert Perry responds

As promised, I contacted Robert Perry about his OK'ing Ken Barnes cutting off the bilge keels. He kindly responded and here's what he has to say:

Ken sent me a few pics of the boat and asked my opinion. He was not the most
informed sailor to deal with and I did my best with the scanty info I was
presented with. Given the overall displacement of that boat, it's draft and
general configuration I did not feel the weight of those plates would
significantly contribute to stability. I had no drawings to work with and I
thusly did no calculations. I offered an opinion. I feel the same way now. I
am convinced that even with the plates the boat would have rolled.

Hope that clarifies the issue.
04-28-2007 08:04 PM
Driver
Bsm

Definitely BSM North Yard in the pic.... I recognize all the boats across the aisle in F dock. We were just on the other side of the dark colored hull power boat in the foreground at the time. Brewer's gave her some 'free time' in the yard to prep for her trip. Saw her receive several pretty impressive awards today down at the Museum in Bristol.
04-28-2007 07:56 PM
blt2ski Cam,

Thanks for comments, and yes I was commenting on your now NOT being a moderator vs before. i probably should have change the "does" first work in question to "did".........off I go to boat to install a new radio, and If I can get to store, a AC charger!

marty
04-28-2007 07:55 PM
poopdeckpappy
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross31

By the way Ken Barnes grw up sailing in southern California...on the ocean,

Southern California waters are fairly protected by a chain of Islands from Point Conception to around San Diego, not that it dosen't get nasty at times, but you could sail the Santa Catalina Channel your whole life, the worst it had to offer and the best you'll get is a false sense of preparedness.

I don't know KB's sailing background at all but growing up and sailing Southern Califorina waters is not that impressive of a resume and would not be my sole experience prior to a curcumnavigation.
04-28-2007 07:42 PM
camaraderie Dawg...he was commenting on my coomment that NOW I can mix it up a bit more since I am no longer moderating.

Blt2ski.... Actually...Sailnet never told me to temper any opinions I had or objected to anything I said..so kudos to them. Nevertheless, when I strapped the moderator title on...I felt that my conduct and words would reflect on them either favorably or unfavorably in many people's minds and so sometimes I just shut up rather than get into a fight or chose kinder gentler words than i might otherwise use and tried to be a "moderating" force in some arguments as opposed to actively taking sides. I don't think I ever left any doubt about where I stood on issues that were important to me. So yes... I think I am a bit freer now in my own mind to say exactly what I think. Perhaps the moderator role should be anonymous and we should keep our own screen names independently. Hope that's clear and I don't know you well enough to call you an ass full of crap so I will leave that for another time! (G)

SC31...well I guess we are gonna continue to disagree on the bilge keels. Actually Bob Perry is a regular on another board and I will pose the question over there in hopes of an answer & let you know what he says about it. All best on the crappah!!
04-28-2007 06:38 PM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski
So Cam,

Does sailnet NOT allow you to express and opinion as a moderator, even if it is YOUR opinion, and NOT sailnets? This does not seem right. What you just said, should be and "IS" you opinion of the two sailers ways of doing things. Your job as moderator, should only be to remove bad words, posts, transfer to other forums that are more appropriate etc. At least that is my job at another forum I am at. I can say my opionion, altho I will not say whom is an ass and full of crap, as that is not me anyway of saying I do not agree!

marty
Cam is no longer a moderator... and is just a plain user like most other people here.
04-28-2007 05:01 PM
TrueBlue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver
True Blue,
Are you at Brewer's Sakonnet? (That's where Inspired Insanity is shown in the pic - aisle F/G). There used to be a Nauticat like yours in G8, but I think it was called "Grace".

BTW, there is a Donna Lange event at the Herreschoff Museum today.

Driver
Driver,
Are sure of this? Either your geography is a bit off, or I'm mistaken about her dockage at NEB for repair. As I said, I wasn't at the marina during the layover, but the photo I posted sure looks more like my marina than Brewers . . . which is much smalller.

Here's an aerial of just the north end of the lagoon at NEB showing my dock, with the travelift to the northeast, and 400 dock beyond to the south . . . where I believed her boat to be docked in July of 2005, although, she could have been at the 300 dock - next one south.

04-28-2007 03:42 PM
southerncross31 Well Cam, i guess 2, 400 pound plates of steel measuring 4ft by 4ft wouldn't add any stability right.....i think you are being blind to the obvious here. I never stated it was a twin keel boat... I prefer to read so i can learn more about sailboat design and history. Any boat with 32 sq feet of "wetted" keel surface and 800 pounds removed from the bottom of the hull will become less stable!
By the way Ken Barnes grw up sailing in southern California...on the ocean, and his boat did roll from being hit by a wave.... and I would rather read than type. Cherio old buddy I'm off to the crappah
04-28-2007 03:38 PM
blt2ski So Cam,

Does sailnet NOT allow you to express and opinion as a moderator, even if it is YOUR opinion, and NOT sailnets? This does not seem right. What you just said, should be and "IS" you opinion of the two sailers ways of doing things. Your job as moderator, should only be to remove bad words, posts, transfer to other forums that are more appropriate etc. At least that is my job at another forum I am at. I can say my opionion, altho I will not say whom is an ass and full of crap, as that is not me anyway of saying I do not agree!

marty
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