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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation > The Dream
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Thread: The Dream Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-18-2007 11:11 AM
Valiente
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxglove
The lesson I am re-learning from this sad story is one of the first adages I heard as a sailor; "If in doubt - stay out".

The guy was trying to escape the coastal high seas. He may have done it for the comfort of his grandson. I've been guilty of making a poor decision that I wouldn't have made if I were alone. But with a scared, sick crew, you feel the pressure to make them feel safe.
You're right. The harbour is a powerful lure on the Great Lakes, because it is (usually) free of obstructions around here and is frequently tantalizingly close. But my still-developing instinct on the subject makes me wary of the shore, and I would rather clean up puke from the bilges than blood from the faces of crew because I made for shore in bad or unfamiliar situations. Away from the coast is the best option for the unsure skipper, and it's why the skipper gets to make those sort of calls.
05-18-2007 11:07 AM
Valiente
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirateofcapeann
I know about buoyancy, lead keels and all, but something is not quite right about a boat made from a material that sinks!
With the exception of the papyrus rafts of the ancient Egyptians, all boat materials sink. Wooden ships built to ocean scantlings sink if sufficiently leaky, but individual bits of wood blasted free will float.

I think of ferro-cement in the same way as I think of Bruce Roberts designs: 9 out of 10 of them would make excellent bathtubs or planters. But that is not the fault of the designers or the materials, but the amateur skill sets of the builders. For all I know, the knock against ferro's reputation lies solely in the inability of home builders to execute properly. I've seen some appalling home-builts in fibreglass, as well, but at least they can be insured.

I have seen some excellently finished and reasonably fast ferro cruisers, just as I've seen fast boats in steel. Just because it was popular with the DIY crowd doesn't mean it's an intrinsically inappropriate hull material.
05-17-2007 10:34 PM
brak I passed by that inlet and it is definitely a pretty hairy place (and we went the inside route). However, they really must have been going close to the shore (or, perhaps, they were trying to go INTO the inlet, the article does not say). Fiberglass boat would not have faired much better.

What this really is about is keeping watch, knowing where you are and navigation. And having insurance, if possible - however lots of sailors do not. I think essentially anyone outside US waters is either uninsured or at most has basic liability - what company is going to cover a risk of small craft out there in the ocean?
05-17-2007 02:04 PM
sailingdog Yes, Foxglove-

Open water is generally a lot safer than getting near to shore... Land is bad for boats... other boats are bad for boats...
05-17-2007 12:57 PM
foxglove
If in doubt - stay out

I've gained most of my experience in the Great Lakes and I know that sailors there can develope a false sense of confidence about coastal sailing because 8 foot seas in the Great Lakes are not uncommon, especially on shallow Lake Erie.

There are breakers but there is no current and little in the way of shifting sands in the Great Lakes. Sailors have local knowledge of their home port and most other large ports are not difficult to enter in rough weather, probably because they are also shipping channels.

The lesson I am re-learning from this sad story is one of the first adages I heard as a sailor; "If in doubt - stay out".

The guy was trying to escape the coastal high seas. He may have done it for the comfort of his grandson. I've been guilty of making a poor decision that I wouldn't have made if I were alone. But with a scared, sick crew, you feel the pressure to make them feel safe.
05-17-2007 11:52 AM
Cruisingdad You can make 45 years of the best decision, then one bad one can cost you. Tough to make a harbor in the dark, especially one you do not know. I would have sat it out... most people would have - but not all.

I feel sorry for the guy, but you know what: HE IS ALIVE. That means luck was still on his side.

- CD
05-17-2007 10:47 AM
sailortjk1 Boats have been made out of Fero-cement for many years.
Not the boat or the materials fault.
05-17-2007 03:51 AM
sailingdog Hard to get big pieces of pumice in sizes, shapes and forms to make a decent sailboat.
05-17-2007 02:11 AM
uspirate Laymans Test...
toss a piece of fiberglass in the water.
toss a chunk of cement in the water.
toss a plank of wood in the water.

which one floats

i wonder if you could make a boat out of lava rock?
05-17-2007 02:08 AM
uspirate read an interesting article in cruising world back in 95. guy made a trimaran outta concrete drainage pipe i believe, and used manhole covers as hatches. boat averaged less than 1 knot. left San francisco bay and took 3 days before he was out of visual sight. passage to hawaii took about three months or so, he moored it and end of article.
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