|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|07-27-2007 12:45 AM|
Well, he's no Conchy Joe or a floating dog kennel owner, I'll give him that.
I do wish he would uncouple his anchor advice, which is debatable but welcome input, from his advocacy of his product. The Rocna has a way to go to prove itself "best anchor ever", and dissing other anchors or techniques is not, in my view, a good place to start.
|07-26-2007 11:00 PM|
I'm afraid I have to side with the nay-sayers to this method of anchoring. the first thing that is going to happen with an anchor attached to the crown of your primary anchor is the prevention of the primary anchor setting properly. The second thing that is going to happen is that, if and when the primary anchor drags, it's resetting is going to be inhibited by the secondary anchor. In my opinion, and experience, mooring to two seperate anchors at a 45 degree lead between is better insurance. Both must be set properly, not the usual set one and hope for the best on two, if needed.
Anchors and anchoring are such a difficult subject because it is one of those areas where we are capable of being as passionate about what worked as we are about what did not. The nature of the holding ground, and lack of real knowledge of it, skews the picture as well. One man's nightmare is another's nirvana. Of course one caught a small coral head and the other buried her in sand twenty feet away.
Experience gathered by a lot of anchoring in your particular area, acheiving a good set, and standing an anchor watch mean a great deal more than the particular anchor selected.
I do not find Mr. Smith's posts objectionable. He is very clear about his position and brings some good knowledge to the table. We have other posters who make their living in the boating business and, were we to get to be a little bit too picky, we could say that their business was enhanced by their reputation on sailnet. Freedom of speech, let the cards fall where they may, and the willingness to have an open mind. Besides, we're just as guilty as any possible overt salesman. We've spent weeks on the topic of SolarStix and no one has an advertising budget as big as that thread. If I were SolarStix, my simple ad would be, "it's all they talk about on Sailnet!".
|07-25-2007 09:47 PM|
I read the rockna description of why not to use this method and then read a very long description of how to use this method. HUH?
Can we introduce Mr Rockna to Conky Joe?
|07-25-2007 09:20 PM|
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
Long time ago, I used a chain also, and stopped using it, because first it was more weight I had to pull, remeber main anchor the motor pulls, the first, Alex does.... to attach and remove was a pain in the neck (I just do a quick bowline, which is fast, easy, secure, easy to remove and helps if you don't have time), because I needed to attach the shackle ( right name??), pulling anchor was slippery, and storing was messy.
If it was a permanent mooring, yes, for the time I am anchored 3 to 4 days, the rope is fine..Its not the floating rope, ok??
By the way, I am very aware of the 45º Double anchor, but here with the boat swinging twice a day from east to west, the anchors, if not set at exact lenghts (difficult to do), start approaching each other, as one holds one drags etc. and end up being worse, as that arrangement here ends up in a tangled mess. BY EXPERIENCE...
|07-25-2007 02:27 PM|
|eherlihy||I just looked at Alex's diagram again and noticed one difference between his technique, and that of the Voyager's Handbook. The connection between anchors in Alex's description is rope, and that in the VH (and CW) is chain and shackles. There is a rope on the Danforth, but it is only used for retrieving the danforth after the main is secure.|
|07-25-2007 02:15 PM|
With respect to the tandem anchoring technique in the OP, this article was essentially lifted from chapter 6 (pg 173-174) of the Voyager's Handbook second edition; "Some situations demand extra holding power, more than can be supplied by the primary anchor. This can be the case in some crowded Mediterranean anchorages, where it is not possible to put out adequate scope for the conditions. It can also be the case on a bottom with poor holding or in very high winds. In these situations, setting two anchors in tandem on the same rode provides additional holding power and will keep the primary anchor from dragging." ... "Tandem anchors are a common solution in Chile where high winds and rocky, kelp-covered bottoms cause anchors that have worked successfully everyplace else to drag".
I initially found the description of this technique in the book confusing, and had to re-read it several times before I understood. Seeing it again in CW reinforced the idea.
Alex's illustration, and explination were far clearer than those in either the Voyager's Handbook, or CW. Maybe he should be a consultant on the next version?
Finally, and I don't like going here, by stating that anyone's practice (never mind two well respected authors);
The OP asked if anyone had experience with the tandem anchoring technique. Alex stated that he did have experience with this technique, and he explained it very well.
|07-25-2007 02:14 PM|
The gist of this tandem anchoring is that you need to pick your anchors carefully and deploy them when you need them. I can see where it will work and there are a few places that stream mooring (an anchor out fore & aft) would be better, or two anchors set at a 45 degree angle.
Judging what method of anchoring you will use will come from experience and discussing the methods on sites like this with other sailors and find out what they have experienced. The main thing is to keep and open mind and an eye on the weather/tidal patterns where you are at.
|07-25-2007 02:09 PM|
I'll be as repetitious as Mr. Smith is in hawking his products, by repeating two forum rules he breaches with each of his 71 posts -
* Post messages promoting a commercial enterprise - this is only permitted for paying SailNet Advertisers
* Include links in your postings to commcerial enterprises in an effort to promote those enterprises regardless of your personal involvement in that enterprise - this is only permitted for paying SailNet Advertisers
You may think I'm a "tad unfair", but in my opinion his constant anchor bashing to promote his anchors gets a tad tiresome.
|07-25-2007 02:06 PM|
One of the major sail mags recently did a piece on comparing anchors, but comparative tests are only as good as the test conditions (i.e. if they only tested in mud, it doesn't help you if you normally anchor in a rocky cove...). I believe it prompted a 'interesting' thread in this site. I recommend doing a search of this site for the threads about anchors. I think the 'debating' really does a better job of exploring the pros and cons of each anchor. If you can get through the personal attacks and the 'paid advertising', I think you may find your answer.
|07-25-2007 01:37 PM|
Originally Posted by TrueBlue View Post
I would ask... is there any reliable, independent test results out there that cover all of these types of anchors and conditions? Wouldn't this already have been a subject of extensive tests at Practical Sailor? I'm still pretty much a N00b, and between boats at that, but it would seem there should be some pretty sound test results out there... independent, unsponsored tests.
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