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  Topic Review (Newest First)
5 Hours Ago 12:31 PM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
What are you trying to use this for that "one-way" charging is so critical....? This is important and you keep putting it off.
It's only critical as one possible element in a given design scenario that has multiple solution paths. Deserving of its own thread at some point, but not well enough developed yet.

I figure at this stage of my learning, better to ask for help on specific points of fact, rather than wasting the community's time on overall approaches that I may figure out aren't practical on my own.


I have been making progress through Stu's excellent 101 level "foundation course" pile o' threads here, Electrical Systems 101

I have learned enough to spot lots of stuff that could use updating with new developments over the years.

New thread here, asking for suggestions, discussion about a wiki: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/274817-there-editable-mobile-electrics-alternative-energy-wiki-somewhere.html
6 Hours Ago 10:45 AM
mitiempo
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Thanks, edited above.

That's a major limitation with the Duo....

Is the EC OK that way?
Yes.
9 Hours Ago 08:14 AM
Maine Sail
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Thanks, edited above.

That's a major limitation with the Duo, doesn't take a big battery to demand that much depleted!

I would have thought any device in that function would be designed to just limit the current and keep charging?

Is the EC OK that way?
What are you trying to use this for that "one-way" charging is so critical....? This is important and you keep putting it off.
13 Hours Ago 04:02 AM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Thanks, edited above.

That's a major limitation with the Duo, doesn't take a big battery to demand that much depleted!

I would have thought any device in that function would be designed to just limit the current and keep charging?

Is the EC OK that way?
13 Hours Ago 03:46 AM
mitiempo
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post

Balmar Digital Duo, 30A limit

Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger, 20A
Xantrex Echo Charge is 15 amps.

The Duo Charge will lock up if current exceeds 30 amps.
14 Hours Ago 03:37 AM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Ah yes the Duo is in many ways like a DCDC Charger, custom top-limit on output voltage very useful for unlike banks and double the Amps capacity vs the EC, thanks for pointing that out.

And I wasn't raising any issues with all the other simpler ACRs etc , just keeping the focus on the one-way flow control, which it seems (so far) none do.


So, the current list:

Balmar Digital Duo, 30A limit, shuts down if target attempts to pull more (!)

Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger, 15A (corrected)

DC-DC converter-chargers (Sterling? 120A but $$)

Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch, sky's the limit but $$$

Old-school ("blocking"?) diodes, but only if efficient ones can be found, so far too much heat waste and voltage drop.
16 Hours Ago 01:32 AM
mitiempo
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post

What I want is, if I set it up to charge FROM BANK1 TO BANK2, there are NO circumstances where current will flow through the device "backward" from bank2 to bank1, even if there's a 200A HO alt pumping current into bank2.

1. Please (anyone) confirm, is this above aspect true for the Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger?
I confirmed this aspect of the Echo Charge in the post above.

I just pointed out that an ACR if installed properly - with charge sources going to the larger bank as an Echo has to be installed - doesn't have the issues you are concerned about. There are hundreds of ACR's installed for each Echo Charge sold and they do not have any issues as you describe.

I sell the Echo Charge as well as ACR's and install both. I know both quite well.

Another device like the Echo Charge is the Balmar Duo-Charge.
16 Hours Ago 01:09 AM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Sorry, I'm not sure how to state more clearly, the one feature, aspect, issue, I'm examining ATM is that the Echo Charger, like the DC-DC chargers, is **one-way-only**. Which seems different from nearly all other "voltage-following" isolator/combiner split-charge type devices, maybe almost unique in its price range? The ONLY other one I've found so far are the $$ Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch.

I'm not interested (here and now anyway) in solutions that just open a normal circuit between two banks, allowing current to flow from whichever bank has the higher voltage.

What I want is, if I set it up to charge FROM BANK1 TO BANK2, there are NO circumstances where current will flow through the device "backward" from bank2 to bank1, even if there's a 200A HO alt pumping current into bank2.

1. Please (anyone) confirm, is this above aspect true for the Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger?

2. Does anyone know of any other voltage-following devices - IOW, not DCDC converters - that do the same?


I have confirmed in the meantime, that the Hellroaring units do not.
17 Hours Ago 11:56 PM
mitiempo
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Sorry if zombie resurrection is frowned upon here, oldie but goodie.

Quick note: the Sterling ProCharge isn't an Alt VR, but battery-to-battery, just in case others got confused like me.

My interest in the (ex-Heart) Xantrex Echo Charger is based on the fact that it seems to be a more sophisticated and efficient version of the old split-charge blocking diodes.

I actually got here investigating the use of intelligent step-up/down DCDC battery chargers - which are also **one-way-only**.

Most isolator/combiner VSR/ACR solutions seem to allow current to flow either way, they just open/close the connection based on voltage cutoffs, even if they aren't dual-sense.

I'm currently looking at units that ensure one-way current flow only.

I believe the Xantrex EC works this way, a charge source raising voltage on the target bank just gets ignored, banks remain isolated. Someone please confirm this?

Most DCDC chargers are pretty pricey, and in general the simplicity and reputation of the EC makes it seem more likely to last a long time, looks pretty bullet-proof.

My main question is, are there **other** modern one-way flow isolating devices I should look at?

Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch look fantastic, endorsed by EnerSys/Odyssey, but also quite $pendy.

I can't figure out if/which HellRoaring or Powerstream units are one-way.

Correct, the Echo Charge keeps the banks isolated. But there is nothing wrong with an ACR (VSR)'s operation either. The banks do not combine until the charging bank - typically the house bank as it is larger - comes up to the specified voltage. This is usually about 13 volts.

The advantages of an ACR are higher current to the auxiliary battery (65 amps with Blue Seas smallest and 120 amps with the next largest for example) and 2 way operation with dual sensing. The Blue Seas ACR's are basically waterproof as they are potted in epoxy. The Echo is not in any way waterproof.
1 Day Ago 12:23 PM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Sorry if zombie resurrection is frowned upon here, oldie but goodie.

Quick note: the Sterling ProCharge isn't an Alt VR, but battery-to-battery, just in case others got confused like me.

My interest in the (ex-Heart) Xantrex Echo Charger is based on the fact that it seems to be a more sophisticated and efficient version of the old split-charge blocking diodes.

I actually got here investigating the use of intelligent step-up/down DCDC battery chargers - which are also **one-way-only**.

Most isolator/combiner VSR/ACR solutions seem to allow current to flow either way, they just open/close the connection based on voltage cutoffs, even if they aren't dual-sense.

I'm currently looking at units that ensure one-way current flow only.

I believe the Xantrex EC works this way, a charge source raising voltage on the target bank just gets ignored, banks remain isolated. Someone please confirm this?

Most DCDC chargers are pretty pricey, and in general the simplicity and reputation of the EC makes it seem more likely to last a long time, looks pretty bullet-proof.

My main question is, are there **other** modern one-way flow isolating devices I should look at?

Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch look fantastic, endorsed by EnerSys/Odyssey, but also quite $pendy.

I can't figure out if/which HellRoaring or Powerstream units are one-way.
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