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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?
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Thread: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-24-2014 11:20 AM
rgscpat
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Just opinion:
It's probably fair and not overly critical, to tell people who are completely new to sailing or voyaging that there are important things that they not only don't know, but aren't even aware that they don't know. And this can be done in a nice way. Similarly, it's fine to educate folks that there's far much more to sailing or cruising than just the circumnavigating notion.

I think it's also important to know and respect that different people are comfortable with different levels of risk, that some like to dive right in and learn directly from their own experience whereas others like to learn gradually, extending their experiences bit by bit, learn from others, and maybe test their knowledge by asking lots of questions on a place like this.

The catch is that a few people may combine a high level of risk tolerance, or even a desire for risk, with a lack of knowledge of the risk they are taking on, and also with a lack of preparation and reasonable care. If they then add to this mix a lack of responsibility for others in their care, then the chances of things going very wrong may get big quickly...

A guess: When a tragedy happens, all cruisers might look a little bad as guilt by association and that could be a source of critical attitude toward those of the dreamers who sound particularly boldly fixed in cluelessness.
06-24-2014 10:38 AM
BubbleheadMd
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
I enjoyed reading this post.

Especially the part about saving the boat to save the crew (essential in subs) which is an attitude in the navy that I think more recreational sailors should know/learn/adopt especially those who want to sail offshore (and presumably remote from assistance).

When one is alone in the middle of an ocean, saving the boat really is the best way to save the crew.

I also liked your mention of the simple tools or devices used in damage control, and the lesson to use creativity to fix the problem or stem the leak using the strongbacks and patching materials.
Glad you enjoyed it. Now all I have to do, is live up to my own standards.
06-23-2014 07:54 PM
Steady Hand
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zAr View Post
When I was a child I set out to explore. No real goal in mind, just the unknown needing to be known and experienced, things to be seen. Not even because they were there, just a driving sense of curiosity, wonderment and adventurous play. Seeing things for the first time, looking over things, under things, around things, looking at things upside down, being startled and in awe by the unexpected and un-thought of. Building your own boats, forts, cars, tanks, planes, trains, puddle canals, bridges, doing all sorts of role playing, imagining yourself as this or that.

That said, some people are quite happy and content to see and do the same things every day for the rest of their lives.

But I think it's the same sense of wonder at the world that drives the circumnavigators among us, the seekers and discoverers, the barrier breakers. As someone mentioned, there are different kinds of circumnavigators - some do the nonstop, some do the X number of years cruise, others do the open-ended voyaging. Some do it with big bucks and big boats, some do it hungry with small boats. Some end up broke and having to abandon their boats.

Is it "worth" it or can some of us afford not to? To me it's like asking what's the point of building spaceships and exploring space, some will always see it as a waste of money and will never understand, asking why we bother talking about it.
Well said!
06-23-2014 07:32 PM
Steady Hand
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Actually, I found out that the climbing community does catch flak when people get lost or injured and need to be plucked off of mountain tops in expensive, helicopter rescues that generate a lot of media attention.

The climbing community is spreading the word that they had better clean up their act, leave no trace and get self-sufficient, or they are going to find themselves heavily regulated, and cut off from prime climbing opportunities.

The sailing community is NOT getting this message out very well.

There's more to being self sufficient than simply carrying enough spare parts to build another boat. It requires tenacity and creativity.

Think of Apollo 13, when the astronauts were forced to adapt CO2 scrubber modules from the LEM to the prime capsule, using nothing but duct tape and covers torn from tech manuals stored onboard.

You would be stunned at how rudimentary the flooding damage control kits onboard modern nuclear submarines are- Wooden wedges and cones, lead sheeting, hemp rope, and "strong backs" made from cut sections of steel pipe, lined with rubber, and a hacksaw.

Why so crude? Because it is simply impossible to anticipate the millions of variables that will come into play to cause a flooding casualty on a submarine. You can't possibly develop enough specialty tools and materials for everything that could go wrong.

We were trained to use our imagination and our creativity to use these crude supplies to keep the water out of the pressure hull. Above all, no one is coming to save you, so you'd better not give up or you're going to die.

Too many people are setting out with misplaced priorities (electronic toys vs. essential maintenance). Too many people are setting out with the "911" mentality, and not enough desire to save the ship, save themselves. Not enough people are asking themselves hard questions. Tgzzz is damned right, that not enough couples are honest with themselves about who REALLY wants to go ocean cruising.

The phrase "perception is reality" comes to mind.

It doesn't matter if boating deaths are dropping, or if we're safer overall. As long as we continue to draw media attention to ourselves by prematurely ejecting ourselves from our vessels, the non-sailing public (and legislators) will utter nonsensical statements like "they had no business being out there", and we will find our freedom to sail greatly restricted.

The freedom to step onto our vessels and go anywhere we damn well please, is one of the last, true freedoms remaining to us here in the U.S. We'd better protect that freedom by taking better care of ourselves out there.
I enjoyed reading this post.

Especially the part about saving the boat to save the crew (essential in subs) which is an attitude in the navy that I think more recreational sailors should know/learn/adopt especially those who want to sail offshore (and presumably remote from assistance).

When one is alone in the middle of an ocean, saving the boat really is the best way to save the crew.

I also liked your mention of the simple tools or devices used in damage control, and the lesson to use creativity to fix the problem or stem the leak using the strongbacks and patching materials.
06-23-2014 07:07 PM
gbgreen59
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...h-pacific.html

Livia must be the 1 in 10,000 who came on the forum wanting to circumnavigate as a novice sailor. I hope to be the 2nd in 20,000...dream big.

I started on the forum after putting an offer on a boat. Still a novice with about 100 miles behind me now. I put in new through-hulls, new toilet, tore out head liners, new bilge pump, sanded and coated keel and hull. Could not have come so far without the help from this forum....I very much appreciate the help.
06-23-2014 03:02 PM
zAr
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

When I was a child I set out to explore. No real goal in mind, just the unknown needing to be known and experienced, things to be seen. Not even because they were there, just a driving sense of curiosity, wonderment and adventurous play. Seeing things for the first time, looking over things, under things, around things, looking at things upside down, being startled and in awe by the unexpected and un-thought of. Building your own boats, forts, cars, tanks, planes, trains, puddle canals, bridges, doing all sorts of role playing, imagining yourself as this or that.

That said, some people are quite happy and content to see and do the same things every day for the rest of their lives.

But I think it's the same sense of wonder at the world that drives the circumnavigators among us, the seekers and discoverers, the barrier breakers. As someone mentioned, there are different kinds of circumnavigators - some do the nonstop, some do the X number of years cruise, others do the open-ended voyaging. Some do it with big bucks and big boats, some do it hungry with small boats. Some end up broke and having to abandon their boats.

Is it "worth" it or can some of us afford not to? To me it's like asking what's the point of building spaceships and exploring space, some will always see it as a waste of money and will never understand, asking why we bother talking about it.
06-23-2014 02:37 PM
tgzzzz
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Despair not, what you seek may yet exist. The SSCA Forum is the closest thing I've seen to what you describe. It's a low traffic forum, probably because the people are out on their long trips. Of course if you post to the forum of masters, then you risk becoming "that guy" asking the silly questions no?

SSCA Forum ? Index page

MedSailor
I haven't checked that out but maybe I will. I'm not too worried about being "that guy" but I take your point. Thx
06-23-2014 01:46 PM
christian.hess
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

ssca is great...

problem is no forum is perfect...thats why a general one is great...

nothing too serious.

having said that I find being on neither extreme forums wise is better...

and lastly never criticise too much, I have always been critical but be helpful...some people just cant be helped thats for sure...or dont want to listen but being nice or trying to is the best way to be helpful...

and to finish off NOBODY knows eveything, no matter how loaded his or her sig line is or avatar is etc...

so learn to pic and chose and take advice with a grain of salt...there is no ONE WAY

peace
06-23-2014 01:42 PM
stoomy
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Doers not dreamers. Sailing 201.
Dreaming is a prerequisite to doing
06-23-2014 01:33 PM
MedSailor
Re: Why All the Absurd Circumnavigation Threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Yeah Med, and Donna. I know, I know. Crazy is tilting at windmills when ya know what they are. I keep poking around for a default forum of smart experienced boaters. Doers not dreamers. Sailing 201. Egos checked at the door. Bleeding hearts not allowed.
Despair not, what you seek may yet exist. The SSCA Forum is the closest thing I've seen to what you describe. It's a low traffic forum, probably because the people are out on their long trips. Of course if you post to the forum of masters, then you risk becoming "that guy" asking the silly questions no?

http://forum.ssca.org/

Personally I like SailNet best of all the forums, warts and all. As for the inexperienced ones, perhaps it's because I remember just how green I was (not that long ago) that I enjoy feeding them.

MedSailor
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