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Composting Toilets

10K views 23 replies 8 participants last post by  SailNet Archive 
#1 ·
Is there any one out there that has experience with an onboard composting toilet? I am wondering what sort of issues they would either solve or create? Seems like a possible alternative to a holding tank.....2 less thru hulls...But I guess most importantly do they keep everything inside in rough weather?

Tanya
 
#2 ·
I'm not sure how well it would work on a boat. However, if the world ever became flooded like in the movie Waterworld, you would be able to make your own dirt and sell it like Kevin Costner did! :D
 
#3 ·
About two years ago Practical Sailor reviewed the Airhead and the Ecolet. As I recall, they found the Airhead to be potentially applicable to a sailboat whereas the Ecolet is big and power-hungry. Also, I recall reading a message somewhere about two years ago from someone who had installed an Airhead in a Southern Cross 31 (my boat) with good results. I am staring down the barrel of this job myself. Any input from the voice of experience is most welcome!
 
#4 ·
Be aware that you could run afoul of some regulations with respect to pump outs. It is a "spirit versus letter of the law" argument and its pretty easy to make a case for composting as a better alternative, but in some places (Canada, I think) if you have a head and no pump out you are subject to a hefty fine.
 
#8 ·
Wnor-

All an MSD type III means is that the head does not discharge overboard. AFAIK, there is no legal requirement for having a pumpout deck fitting.

BTW, once you get 10 posts, you'll be able to post links... it's an anti-spamming security feature...
 
#9 ·
AFAIK, there is no legal requirement for having a pumpout deck fitting.
As I mentioned above, it only seems to be Ontario. here is some specific verbiage from the page I linked to above:

Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.

The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding tank(s) is/are installed so that;

The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned above.
All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one another and the boat.

That seems pretty explicit to me.
 
#10 ·
There were going to be some incredibly stupid rules instituted in British Columbia but with the help of recreational boat lobbyists and magazines like Pacific Yachting, these moves were prevented. I must confess I can't take the dumping issue that seriously as Victoria dumps raw sewage into the salt chuck daily. What all recreational boater from the bottom of Puget Sound to the top Alaska dump out in ten years, if none of these boats had holding tanks, is less than what Victoria dumps out in one day. The population of Greater Victoria is around 330,000 and add to that all the tourist there in the summer and you have serious raw sewage waste going into the ocean on a daily basis.

I also read about Airhead and intend to use it. I sent an email to them - to be gross - on how well it handled very watery diarrhoea after a stomach had reacted to food; they wrote back that this issue wasn't a problem.

If I recall, the Airhead unit is suppose to handle a couple's "depositories" for 80 weekends before needing to be cleaned out. I think the urine bucked needed to be cleaned out every two days.

My old Catalina is still direct flow outlet from the head so at some point I know I will need to do something about it, but from an ex-RV'rs point of view, I'm not thrilled with holding tanks. I think the Airhead unit will fill the bill.
 
#11 ·
So does the Airhead count as a "portable toilet"?

My understanding (could be wrong) is that the info I posted above applies to ALL of Canada, except the one statement about portable toilets, which only applies to Ontario. The source is Transport Canada's official site. he way soeone explained it to me and the way Iread the document is that if the toilet is installed, there must be a pump out. If it is a true portable (not installed) then it is illegal in Ontario but legal in other provinces. The page I linked to is the one for foreign (non Canadian) boaters. I saw something about Canadians that had non conforming systems already in place before the law went into effect getting a 5 year window to upgrade.

I am not trying to bust anyone'cs chops; I think composting is a superior way to do it. But it looks like it might be against regulations in Canada right now.
 
#12 ·
Living in Ontario, I've never heard of this law, but it's true.
I know quite a few sailors with porta-potties. If you read the regulation correctly, composting toilets are illegal because they don't have a means to pump out the crap. I'm going to look into this further and call them. I think composting is far superior than sewage.
 
#13 ·
Canadianseamonkey, thank you very much for offering to call the authorities for clarification. Please post the information you gain, especially if this law applies to all Canadian waters (I don't read it that way). I am planning an extended trip to the Canadian Maritimes next year and was minutes away from ordering an Airhead when I tripped across this thread. I, too, think a composting toilet is probably the right thing to do for the environment, but if these are illegal, well. . . .
 
#14 ·
Well you learn something new everyday. I called the marine division of Transport Canada and as per the provincial legislation, composting toilets are illegal in a pleasure craft in Ontario. This legislation was written in the 70's, so it's old. Porta-potties have never been legal since then. It might be time to update these rules.:confused:
 
#15 ·
According to the Canadian poster at trailerSailor, the national regulation about all installed toilets in pleasure craft requiring a pump out through a deck fitting just went into effect May of this year. Created quite a stir at that site as most of the little wannabe cruisers have completely self contained systems of one type or another; adding plumbing is a big deal. Mine has the most basic kind there is; pretty much a bucket with a seat (and an outer container that is nearly air tight). The interesting thing is that there are new biodegradable bags for these now that are supposedly more environment friendly than any treatment method and they contain the odor remarkably well. I guess their concern is that it is just way too easy to discard the bags improperly (oh yeah, the new bags also claim to have something in them that makes it not a biohazard) or to pump out into the drink (but you'll think twice about that if you have to sqeegee it off the deck).
 
#16 ·
Portable Toilets
Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.

The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding tank(s) is/are installed so that;

The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned above.
All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one another and the boat.

That seems pretty explicit to me.
There is a Portable toilet that is Great Lakes legal. It has a vent and pump-out fitting. Sanipottie. If anyone would like one - I have a never-christened unit that I am willing to sell .... (in GTA)
 
#17 ·
Sailorman,

I think you are making a rather liberal interpration. There is no "unless" on the end of the Ontario regulation. If it is a portable toilet, it is illegal in Ontario. Probably okay in the rest of Canada though. I am glad that isn't somewhere I sail, though a "someday" Summer trip is a possibility. My boat actually has a spot for the bucket molded into the hull; you can't just take it out and drop a head with a tank in.
 
#18 ·
Geoffrey Trott, General Manager of Airhead, has been kind enough to respond to my inquiry about this topic. I get the impression it is "not cool" to directly quote such a response here, so I will paraphrase: The issue exists to some extent on paper, but does not seem to exist in practice. If an individual wants to comply with the letter of the law, the Airhead can be modified as follows:

1. Install a pumpout fitting to the head (and not use it)
2. Replace the thumbscrews with 1/4- 20 machine screws to "permenantly mount it"
 
#19 ·
I have received a prompt written reply to an inquiry to Transport Canada (thank you):

Division 4 (Sewage) of the Regulations for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships and for Dangerous Chemicals (under the Canada Shipping Act) stipulate requirements for pleasure craft in Canadian waters.

With regard to specific requirements for toilets, they fall under provincial legislation and are unrelated to Transport Canada [emphasis added]. You will need to contact the appropriate provincial ministry for further information.​
So, it sounds like one province might establish regulations that prohibit composting heads, while another permits them. I wonder what the story is in the Maritime Provinces.
 
#21 ·
As I understand it here in BC there are not yet requirements for pleasure craft regarding overboard discharge except in Marine parks... Not to sure about this. I also understand that we cannot enter Washington state with having a holding tank. Is this true? If it is would a composting toilet meet their requirements? And is there any one out there that has used one on board? If so what and how much and are you happy with it?

I hadn't heard of the airhead until now. The one I had been looking at is from !you know what.sun-mar.you know what! and certainly seems much bulkier... 23" deep. I also like the solar fan option on the air head. My aunt uses a composting toilet at her recreational cabin and is very satisfied with that but it is definately big. However, they have found, if they don't pee in it so much things work much better and it doesn't smell. Seems like you could easily work around that on a boat....
 
#22 ·
some things to think about

I researched the composting toilet a few years back.

The electrical consumption on the model I looked at was pretty minimal - just
a circulating fan,

But what stopped me is that these things need an "exposure" on more or less a daily basis, in order to keep the enzyme farm from dying out. As pretty much a weekend sailor, that killed it for me. But for liveaboard use they look
to be a good fit.
 
#23 ·
But what stopped me is that these things need an "exposure" on more or less a daily basis, in order to keep the enzyme farm from dying out. As pretty much a weekend sailor, that killed it for me. But for liveaboard use they look
to be a good fit.
The airhead site specifically talks to "weekend" use.

http://www.airheadtoilet.com/howitworks.html

Their use of it seems to be a lot less than I think I/we would use it.

Maybe I am too full of it!

Then there is all that paper supply.

And they don't explain exactly how you "flush" it.

And what about "the squirts"?

And the liquid dumping part for a beer drinker might be ummm.........well.........forget it.
 
#24 ·
Well...here are the Canadian Regulations that apply on the Great Lakes:

Environmental Protection Act

R.R.O. 1990, REGULATION 343

DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE FROM PLEASURE BOATS

Consolidation Period: From February 12, 2007 to the e-Laws currency date.

Last amendment: O.Reg. 35/07.

This is the English version of a bilingual regulation.

1. In this Regulation,

"pleasure boat" means a boat used primarily for the carriage of a person or persons for pleasure, whether on charter or not, and whether for compensation or not, and includes a boat used on water for living purposes; ("bateau de plaisance")

"sewage" means organic and inorganic waste, and includes fuel, lubricants, litter, paper, plastics, glass, metal, containers, bottles, crockery, rags, junk or similar refuse or garbage, and human excrement, but does not include,

(a) liquid wastes, free of solids, from water used in a pleasure boat for household purposes, or

(b) exhaust wastes, cooling water and bilge water from a pleasure boat; ("eaux d'égout")

"storage equipment" means equipment of a design and construction suitable for the storage or the incineration and storage of human excrement in a pleasure boat including such equipment that is an integral part of a toilet; ("appareil d'entreposage")

"toilet", in relation to a pleasure boat, means equipment designed or used for defecation or urination by humans. ("cabinet de toilette") R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 343, s. 1.

2. No person shall discharge or deposit, or cause or permit to be discharged or deposited, into any water, sewage from a pleasure boat. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 343, s. 2.

3. The owner and the operator of every pleasure boat in which a toilet is installed shall ensure that, while the boat is on water,

(a) the boat is equipped with storage equipment; and

(b) such toilet and storage equipment are installed so as to be non-portable. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 343, s. 3.

4. The owner of a pleasure boat in which a toilet or toilets and storage equipment are installed shall ensure that each toilet and the storage equipment are installed so that,

(a) the toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment receives all toilet waste from the toilet;

(b) equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment;

(c) no means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned in clause (b);

(d) equipment designed for the incineration and storage of human excrement is supplied with such electrical current or other source of heat as is necessary to reduce to ash all excrement deposited therein; and

(e) all parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one another and the boat. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 343, s. 4.
This is R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 343, s. 3 referenced above:

3. The owner and the operator of every pleasure boat in which a toilet is installed shall ensure that, while the boat is on water,

(a) the boat is equipped with storage equipment; and

(b) such toilet and storage equipment are installed so as to be non-portable. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 343, s. 3.
Note that the regulation states that the toilet needs to be INSTALLED so as to be non-portable WHILE THE BOAT IS ON THE WATER

This means that while your boat is floating your portable toilet needs to be held in place with a secure system that would not allow it to be moved. i.e.: it is not acceptable to use something that can be passed from cabin to cockpit, or moved around the cabin.

The unit needs to be equipped with a vent and pumpout fitting, and you need to connect this to a pumpout fitting on the deck.

The Thetford MSD Sanipotties are definitely legal, as are some others:

SaniPottie MSD marine toilet.
3.0-gallon (11.4-liter) holding tank capacity.
Permits overboard discharge, dockside pumpout,discharge into remote holding tank. Includes stainless steel hold-down brackets.
 
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