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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-14-2007 07:37 PM
sailingdog Merttan-

If you haven't gotten it... get Don Casey's Inspecting the Aging Sailboat. It is an excellent book and will let you do a rough preliminary survey of the boat. This should give you a pretty good idea if the boat is even worth further consideration.
11-14-2007 07:28 PM
merttan
Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
You mention nothing about a good survey? How will you know what to offer if you don't have a handle on the actual condition other than aesthetics. I also think your repair estimates are grossly optimistic. Any boat in the 30 feet range that can be purchased for under 10k will take close to that same amount in repairs rather quickly. Been there done that as have many on this board....

The list below is by no means complete but I have added $ symbols next to each. The symbols represent the costs related to a repair more $ = more money..

Some things to look for:

Wet decks $$$$$$$
Chain plates $$
Bulkheads $$$$
keel joint issues $$$$
running and standing rigging $$$$
electrical system $$$
plumbing system $$
fuel tank and internal condition $$$
sea cocks and through hulls $$$
steering mechanism and condition of $$
Moisture in the rudder? $$$$
cutlass bearing $$
rudder bearing $$
stuffing box $
bilge & stringer condition $
blisters $$
how many layers of bottom paint? $
engine with an oil analysis
oil leaks $$
interior cushions moldy? $$$
Well I haven't seen the boats yet I'm going to see them on Staurday... I'll take the list you wrote with me though... You have some points that is not in my list... Thanx...
There are defect I'm willing to swallow though. Such as bad cushions, bottom paint, old electrical systems, old electronics, etc... Of course, those don't resemble further problems such as moldy cushions can be from leaks and bad air circulation which means bigger problems...

I've got a question here though, tell me if that's the right way...
(?)I've been trying to do my boat visits after rainy days to make any leakage visible...

(?)So far, I've been bringing my tool box with me to remove bolts and screws in certain areas to see their condition. I've seen some rusted ones, those I thought have a water in the core... Some were plainly in good condition. Then, I check the bolt hole with a cotton stick (ear cleaner) to see if there is any moisture or peeling...

(?)I also pull and push stanchions and cleats to see if they move...

(?)I check batteries and wires with a electronic multimeter for shorts and battery life...

(?)I use a plastic spatula to scratch bottom paint to see if it's peeling off ...

(?) Open-close all hatches, companion way, etc. Multiple times to see water, rotting, and their overall condition...

(?) I spin the tiller or wheel... First slowly to feel any rusting on the bearings.... Than really fast to see how they react to fast movement...

(?)If I can I jump on the deck and cocpit to feel any softness and listen for cracking sounds... Otherwise use a plastic hummer to knock around the deck and feel the thickness.

(?) I check for water accumulation or marks around engine compartment, storage areas, bilge, head, cabinets, and under the cushions...

Do you have any more ideas on checking what, where, and how?

Thanks again...
11-14-2007 01:37 PM
Maine Sail
Wed deck repair is expensive..

Wet decks are one of the big reasons some boats are priced so cheaply! Owners are most often too lazy to remove hardwear and re-bed it properly and on a rotating schedule. The end result is that everywhere a screw or bolt goes through the deck, from cleats to stanchions to chain plates, water finds it's way into the decks core and begins to saturate it.

Deck cores, on many production boats, are either plywood or balsa wood sandwiched between two very thin layers of fiberglass. When deck fittings such as port lights, cleats, genoa tracks, stanchions or hatches are not re-sealed, or re-bedded properly, moisture finds it's way into the wooden deck core thus rotting it and causing serious structural problems if ignored for long enough. How do you find a boat like this? 1) It's been for sale for a very, very long time and not sold 2) It's the least expensive or close to the bottom in price for it's type or model

I have personally seen a number of stanchions ripped out of decks and cleats ripped right off the bows of boats due to wet cores over the years and it's not a pretty sight. I also knew a guy who needed to buy "shorter stays because they stretched". His stays had not stretched but rather his deck rotted and the mast was sinking into it thus bottoming out his turn buckles! Now that's a wet deck!

To repair a deck correctly is a very time consuming a laborious job that includes removal of the decks top skin, carving out the old rotted core, glassing in new core then re-laminating the deck side fiberglass. Once you have completed that process, in seven or eight separate locations, and trust me I've over simplified the process by a lot, you then need to re-gelcoat or Awlgrip the deck and then replace the non skid.

Buying a cheap boat is NOT CHEAP it's ill-informed. Listen to the seasoned vets on this and other boards when they say spending a little more up front for a boat in good condition pays off!!

Here's a deck re-core read it and then ask your self if saving a few bucks at the purchase is really worth it:

Deck re-core link:
http://www.triton381.com/projects/re...on/recore.html
11-14-2007 09:54 AM
sailingdog If the boat has a cored deck, and the core has gotten wet and started to delaminate, the areas that have the problem generally need to be taken apart, have a new core laminated in and then have the laminate re-built over it. Very time consuming, and if you hire someone to do it...very, very expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrimpAndSail View Post
What do you mean by wet decks???
11-14-2007 09:52 AM
AjariBonten
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrimpAndSail View Post
What do you mean by wet decks???
I think Halekai means decks that are soft from water intrusion under the laminate into the core.

From what I have been reading that can be anything from a weekend PIA to scrapping the boat for $$$$. Look for soft spots anywhere anything penetrates the deck, like chainplates and stanchions, hatches, ports, mast steps, etc.

Good luck in your search, we're all pulling for you....

Fred
11-14-2007 09:38 AM
ScrimpAndSail
Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
The list below is by no means complete but I have added $ symbols next to each. The symbols represent the costs related to a repair more $ = more money..

Some things to look for:

Wet decks $$$$$$$
Chain plates $$
Bulkheads $$$$
keel joint issues $$$$
running and standing rigging $$$$
electrical system $$$
plumbing system $$
fuel tank and internal condition $$$
sea cocks and through hulls $$$
steering mechanism and condition of $$
Moisture in the rudder? $$$$
cutlass bearing $$
rudder bearing $$
stuffing box $
bilge & stringer condition $
blisters $$
how many layers of bottom paint? $
engine with an oil analysis
oil leaks $$
interior cushions moldy? $$$

What do you mean by wet decks???
11-14-2007 09:04 AM
sailhog Merttan,
You should take Sailingdog's advice to heart. Also, with a budget like yours, I would look for a boat with an Atomic 4 in it. For less than $1,500 you can rebuild one yourself, or you can have someone like Moyer do it for about $5,000. A few hundred dollars goes a long way on one of these, and it doesn't get you anywhere with a diesel that needs work. If you use common sense, they don't blow up. They go about half as far per volume of fuel, but I'm sure that's something you can live with. People who dismiss the A4 don't know what they are talking about.
11-14-2007 08:49 AM
sailingdog One thing that no one seems to have pointed out. Often, buying the same make/model boat in excellent shape is far less expensive than buying it in "fixer-upper" shape and restoring it. The price difference may only be a few thousand dollars, but the costs in repairs it saves you may be in the tens of thousands of dollars.

This is one reason it generally doesn't make sense to upgrade electronics in a boat you're about to sell—it is almost impossible to recoup the costs of the upgraded electronics in the sale price. A new suite of instruments, like the Raymarine ST60+ Tridata with wind, may well cost $2500, not including installation... but to the buyer, it is only generally worth $300-500. This is true of most upgrades on boats.
11-14-2007 08:25 AM
Maine Sail
You mention...

You mention nothing about a good survey? How will you know what to offer if you don't have a handle on the actual condition other than aesthetics. I also think your repair estimates are grossly optimistic. Any boat in the 30 feet range that can be purchased for under 10k will take close to that same amount in repairs rather quickly. Been there done that as have many on this board....

The list below is by no means complete but I have added $ symbols next to each. The symbols represent the costs related to a repair more $ = more money..

Some things to look for:

Wet decks $$$$$$$
Chain plates $$
Bulkheads $$$$
keel joint issues $$$$
running and standing rigging $$$$
electrical system $$$
plumbing system $$
fuel tank and internal condition $$$
sea cocks and through hulls $$$
steering mechanism and condition of $$
Moisture in the rudder? $$$$
cutlass bearing $$
rudder bearing $$
stuffing box $
bilge & stringer condition $
blisters $$
how many layers of bottom paint? $
engine with an oil analysis
oil leaks $$
interior cushions moldy? $$$
11-14-2007 01:47 AM
Sailormann
Quote:
34' Seafarer(1974): Condition (according to the ad, I haven't seen the boat yet) glazed gel-coating and some cracks in the fairing compound of the rudder... Needs new bottom paint... Looking at around 1-1.5K repairs?(I'm going to offer 9K if it looks good...)

27' Hunter(1978): Older sails (over 10yrs) ... Looking at 1-2K for new pair of sails?(I'm going to offer 7.5K if it looks good...)

30' Pearson(1973): Gas engine... The boat seems to be in OK shape. (Im going to offer 7K if it looks good...)

30' Cat (1976): needs new engine or rebuild... Rebuild the engine for 3-4K?(I'd offer 4K if I like it...)
My two cents...

The 34 is going to cost a fair buck to keep going. The others will be cheaper.
Gear for the 34 is one size up from a 30 footer in a lot of cases, and you're going to pay more for mooring, storage, etc., etc. If you're on a budget, it's going to be hard to maintain her.

Don't buy the Catalina - if the engine's pooched it can easily run you 10K to remove, repair, replace, reinstall, realign, etc. etc.

Personally, I wouldn't take a late seventies Hunter, regardless of how inexpensive it was...

The Pearson is a good boat.
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