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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-17-2015 08:15 PM
albrazzi
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Thanks for the explanation, I might lift my Mast boot just for a look see. It looks like the intent of my Babystay is to help create the arc as the mast bends so the stress is not all on the partners.
11-17-2015 04:58 PM
Faster
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by albrazzi View Post
Not even considering it holds the mast forward as you tension the backstay? Like I have said I haven't looked at the deck penetration for construction. What I'm reading as the "partners" is (I assume) the mast being fixed to the deck in some way. Is that correct? Could a Babystay boat use the Babystay connecting point as a "pivot" if you will, and the Mast floats in the deck opening or do I have some sort of hard sealant in that area I'm not seeing.
Again CS 30 with Selden mast. No indication or reason to believe all is not original.
"Partners" is where the mast passes through the deck opening.. usually wedges are placed here prior to the boot to hold the mast in the right position within the hole. "Spartite" is a pourable rubber compound that sets up kind of hard and is often used in place of wedges (which can occasionally shake loose in the wilder going)

Exactly where you wedge the mast in the partners (depending on clearance space) can help determine rake and/or prebend. It would be very odd to see a setup where the partners were allowed to 'float'.

Yes, the baby stay can be used to induce some forward mast bend, and indeed the adjustable types like C&C liked to use did just that as long as you have in-line shrouds. The minute you triangulate with swept spreaders/aft shrouds you lose that adjustability.

When adjusting the backstay usually the main objective is to tension the forestay to reduce luff sag. If the backstay is very powerful, you can induce compression bending in the mast - if the mast is allowed to bend too much, you lose transferring that force to the forestay. Limiting mast bend is a checkstay's job, pretty much the opposite action of a babystay.

Anyhow, on your boat sounds like you want to set the babystay to give you some 'prebend'.. and how you leave it will depend on your mainsail's shape.
11-17-2015 04:20 PM
albrazzi
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Often times the baby stay is there simply to reduce/eliminate mast pumping in certain conditions, esp if it's non adjustable on the fly. Such 'fixed' babystays are not sail shape controls.
Not even considering it holds the mast forward as you tension the backstay? Like I have said I haven't looked at the deck penetration for construction. What I'm reading as the "partners" is (I assume) the mast being fixed to the deck in some way. Is that correct? Could a Babystay boat use the Babystay connecting point as a "pivot" if you will, and the Mast floats in the deck opening or do I have some sort of hard sealant in that area I'm not seeing.
Again CS 30 with Selden mast. No indication or reason to believe all is not original.
11-17-2015 09:26 AM
Faster
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Often times the baby stay is there simply to reduce/eliminate mast pumping in certain conditions, esp if it's non adjustable on the fly. Such 'fixed' babystays are not sail shape controls.
11-17-2015 09:08 AM
Bleemus
Re: Adjusting Your Rig, step by step.

The fact that your spreaders tips and chainplates are slightly behind mast center will cause mast bend through shroud tension.


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11-17-2015 07:05 AM
albrazzi
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
In the US, you can buy a car, own a car, register a car, and get a driver's license, without any knowledge of how to change a spare tire. (Well duh, you'd obviously call the road club or buy a new car, wouldn't you?)

In France, I'm told that if you can't show proficiency at how to change a spare tire or spark plug, you don't get a license at all. At least, it was that way circa 1970 when my friend had to do that.)

So, rigging? So what, some shmuck buys a boat and rig collapses. With any luck, all involved parties drown, the lawyers are not involved, and the crabs get to eat. As the gods intended them to.

I fail to see a problem, except for failing to feed the crabs.
I cant tell what you are trying to say here. I'm trying to reopen a sticky on Rig set-up not asking a question on whether or not to I should replace my 25 year old rusty stays.
Certainly I don't want to stifle anyone's free speech, I was just hoping to keep it on topic.
11-16-2015 10:47 PM
albrazzi
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Looks like the keel step is the key to bending a mast, I get it now. Looks like a good start back up on a good discussion. Thanks for the enlightenment. Like I said I have a lot to do. At least this year I can make the rig a priority.
11-16-2015 10:47 PM
hellosailor
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

In the US, you can buy a car, own a car, register a car, and get a driver's license, without any knowledge of how to change a spare tire. (Well duh, you'd obviously call the road club or buy a new car, wouldn't you?)

In France, I'm told that if you can't show proficiency at how to change a spare tire or spark plug, you don't get a license at all. At least, it was that way circa 1970 when my friend had to do that.)

So, rigging? So what, some shmuck buys a boat and rig collapses. With any luck, all involved parties drown, the lawyers are not involved, and the crabs get to eat. As the gods intended them to.

I fail to see a problem, except for failing to feed the crabs.
11-16-2015 10:33 PM
aloof
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Triple inline spreaders. Single lowers. The chainplates are slightly aft of the mast center as are the actual spreader tips. That may help the prebend. But I don't know...never asked. The mast bends because the partners push it forward at deck level against the step and backstay. It's a bendy mast section, too.

Baby stay might help with spinnaker pole loads, but the "chicken stays" are specifically for that. Actually a check stay, they run from head level on the mast to the foredeck. Such forces are unlikely except in absolutely crazy pole-forward racing. Especially on boats that load up...IOR...instead of surfing the loads away. Or if the pole and sail tend to get stuffed into the sea.
11-16-2015 10:10 PM
albrazzi
Re: Adjusting Your Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by aloof View Post
My backstay is hydraulic. On this boat the backstay adjustment is mostly for headstay tension. Pumping it on does bend the mast, of course, but that bend is usually mostly removed with the runners to give the main some shape. But whatever it takes to get the job done...that's my principal rule. I race and cruise. Cruising is not lazy for me. Always optimizing performance and comfort.

I have the mast setup so that with the backstay off, baby off, runners off, not sailing, there is about 2 inches of prebend in the 60 feet of mast above the deck. The aluminum section is 8" deep. Then while sailing I adjust things as appropriate. 2" of bend gives a nice full main luff. No bend makes the luff a little too loose. More bend, maybe 8", a full diameter, flattens the main nicely, like a door, more so at the top. The conservative limit is 1.5 diameters, 12", of bend. I have the hydraulic cylinder set so that with no runners on I cannot go much past that amount of bend.

I went up in the bosun chair and measured the static bend at three places. The sailmaker uses those measurements for the sail. It is a truly beautiful thing when done right.

The babystay is really just there to hold on to while on the foredeck It doesn't seem to do anything for bending. My spar builder agrees. It is rather an old fashioned thing, however is handy when bashing thru seas. Especially with bare poles or no wind.
Are your stays inline or spread for some aft support. I suppose the mast just wants to bend that way? so pulling on it just makes it bend. I've also heard the Baby Stay helps keep the mast in one piece with heavy spinnaker loads. Yea or nay on that.
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