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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Sometimes Practical Sailor is NOT So Practical..?
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Thread: Sometimes Practical Sailor is NOT So Practical..? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-03-2008 02:04 PM
brak
Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
I guess you and I have a different idea of what "expensive" is in terms of tools.
Yep, to me a single hand tool that costs $40 or so (that's what I paid for mine at Home Depot) is pretty expensive. I probably can't justify buying a $100 or more crimper, though that would be nice in principle. It is all about cost vs. benefit - the results I get are pretty good (I will post cut-off photos so we can compare ), and I still have money left for other things. With no budget limitations I probably would have gone with your tool (though then I would need a separate tool to use for large size lugs)
06-03-2008 01:59 PM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by brak View Post
Interesting photo The tool I use is actually quite expensive
I don't use the dimple part for insulated/heat shrink fittings though, rather (as the tool itself suggests) I use the flat part (looks like two sections of a circle, deeper into the tool). As far as size goes, tool is sized for wire 16 and up - so it isn't universal but I really don't have many smaller fittings on the boat, and I do own a standard (also non-dimple) crimper for those.

I haven't cut the fittings though it may be interesting to see, but I do know that they are crimped flat. I might sacrifice one this weekend to see what it looks like inside.
I guess you and I have a different idea of what "expensive" is in terms of tools.


The Klein T1715 is a decent crimper designed to work properly with each size and color coded crimp and it sells for $99.00 to $125.99. You can buy crimpers that run into the $300.00 to $500.00 range..

Klein T1715 Crimpers 99.95-$125.99

(photo courtesy of Klein Tools Inc.)


Your Klein Journeyman series crimper, with a quick Google search, turned up prices from about $26.00 to $35.00 is not that expensive! I feel my $55.00 crimpers from Ancor (very similar to the Klein T1715's) were a steal!

I gues if you are comparing your crimpers to a $3.98 crimp, strip and cut tool from Wal*Mart, that works about as well for crimping wire as a set of toe nail clippers, than yeah I guess they were expensive..??


Again, one size does not fit all crimps well no matter what Klein says. If it did they would have no need to make crimpers costing much more money and with more expensive and better machined dies...


With this larger photo I can actually see the area you use to crimp and while preferable to the dimple it's still a one sizes fits all approach to the Yellow, Blue and Red crimp terminals.
(photo courtesy of Klein Tools Inc.)
06-03-2008 12:39 PM
brak Interesting photo The tool I use is actually quite expensive
I don't use the dimple part for insulated/heat shrink fittings though, rather (as the tool itself suggests) I use the flat part (looks like two sections of a circle, deeper into the tool). As far as size goes, tool is sized for wire 16 and up - so it isn't universal but I really don't have many smaller fittings on the boat, and I do own a standard (also non-dimple) crimper for those.

I haven't cut the fittings though it may be interesting to see, but I do know that they are crimped flat. I might sacrifice one this weekend to see what it looks like inside.
06-03-2008 11:39 AM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by brak View Post
Well, one day when I am done with other projects - I can deal with heat shrinking on these terminals Boeshield is good - I spray my engine with it.

Here, btw is the crimping tool I use - it's not as precise but works great:

makes for an easy job crimping anything from 16 gauge to 2.
Brak that is "one size fits all" a dimple crimper and as such should be used to crimp un-insulated terminals. Some will say "insulated and non-insulated" but dimple crimpers do not make the same crimp on insulated terminals as a double crimper or a crimper designed for heat shrink terminals. Also a good quality crimper will have jaws to fit the three colors of insulated terminals Yellow, Blue and Red.

Precision machined jaws will not rip expensive heat shrink terminals:


Dimple crimpers will:



I made a crimp with my Klein crimper/strippers and one with a my Ancor Products "Single Crimp Ratcheting Crimper". I then cut the crimped terminals open with my Dremel tool and took a peak.
The crimp on the left was made with my Anchor Ratcheting crimper which is a very decent quality crimper and the crimp on the right was made with my Klein "dimple crimper" a very mediocre crimper but also the type most boat owners use to make crimped connections.
I now understand why many boaters think "air" can get into a crimp and corrode it. If you look at he crimp on the right, made with the "cheap" crimper, you can still see strands of copper wire. The crimp on the left is far superior and has in fact "cold formed" (wire and crimp have become one), similar to what happens when you swage standing rigging. I think the photo speaks for its self. A well built crimping tool is well worth the money!

06-03-2008 10:37 AM
brak Well, one day when I am done with other projects - I can deal with heat shrinking on these terminals Boeshield is good - I spray my engine with it.

Here, btw is the crimping tool I use - it's not as precise but works great:

makes for an easy job crimping anything from 16 gauge to 2.
06-03-2008 09:32 AM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by brak View Post
The ready heat shrink image in your post has incorrect link (but I loaded it and it looks good).

I understand the technique but they take too much work So I leave them for where I actually have to use them. In most places they are installed on terminals which go onto the open terminal block anyway, so there isn't much point in sealing. I do places that are exposed to moisture, propane locker of course etc.
If you are using tinned wire it's not AS BIG of a deal but, open terminal block or not, a heat shrink connector keeps air bound moisture or humidity (75% on my boat the other day BTW) from creeping into the wire ends.

All my terminal block crimps are heat shrunk then then the entire terminal block is sprayed with Boeshield. They will still look just as good in ten years doing this.

As for takes to long? It takes me about 45 seconds per termination to crimp and heat shrink?? Not much for patience huh?

This is an interesting photo of a WIRE NUT connection I found hidden on my boat! It was un-tinned wire joined to tinned wire. Notice the difference between the un-tinned and tinned. It speaks for its self!



Here's why you must ALWAYS use the proper wire gauge! The brown lamp cord was 18 ga and wired to a pump. Note the melting of the jacket due to over heating!!


If you are using heat shrink connectors these are the crimpers you'll want to use. This pair is distributed by Ancor Products and are called the "Single Crimp Ratchet Tool" Part No. 702010. I paid about $55.00 for this crimper at Hamilton Marine in Portland, Maine.
06-03-2008 12:02 AM
brak The ready heat shrink image in your post has incorrect link (but I loaded it and it looks good).

I understand the technique but they take too much work So I leave them for where I actually have to use them. In most places they are installed on terminals which go onto the open terminal block anyway, so there isn't much point in sealing. I do places that are exposed to moisture, propane locker of course etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
Brak,

Even heating while spinning the crimp & wire between your fingers and KEEP THE TORCH MOVING!! I just installed over 40 heat shrink crimp connectors in the last five days and every one was done with my mini butane torch, I prefer my heat gun but in 40 crimps I ruined none...

Patience!!
06-02-2008 11:46 PM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by brak View Post
I rarely bother with heat shrink, though. It is just too hard to properly shrink. Never had any luck with hair dryers. I do own a little butane torch, but even with that most heat shrinks will only shrink on one side or more one one side than the other or burn or whatever. I wish they worked as advertised.

Brak,

Even heating while spinning the crimp & wire between your fingers and KEEP THE TORCH MOVING!! I just installed over 40 heat shrink crimp connectors in the last five days and every one was done with my mini butane torch, I prefer my heat gun but in 40 crimps I ruined none...

Patience!!

06-02-2008 11:34 PM
brak I rarely bother with heat shrink, though. It is just too hard to properly shrink. Never had any luck with hair dryers. I do own a little butane torch, but even with that most heat shrinks will only shrink on one side or more one one side than the other or burn or whatever. I wish they worked as advertised.
06-02-2008 11:31 PM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtatico1404 View Post
I might cut some slack to PS from the practical point of view.....
This month was especially practical they had "Tined Wire Myth Busted" which is practical I guess? Then in the same issue they had an article on night vision "thermal imaging" cameras for boats.

The least expensive model made is a fixed view that you can't even move or rotate for $5000.00! That's a lot of tinned wire!!The next model up in the line, and the one they liked, is $9000.00! Oh, and the best part of these units they DON'T even work well in the fog so yes you will still need radar...!


Yeah real practical chap out on your wire so you can afford "star wars" for your boat??


P.S. How many boaters are going to spend more than $1.00 EACH for heat shrink crimp connectors and then cheap out on the wire???
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