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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Battery Setup: Blue Sea ACR?
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Thread: Battery Setup: Blue Sea ACR? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-10-2008 10:49 AM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
No matter what Xantrex says, if you're gonna use an EchoCharge, I'd disconnect the second "channel" (i.e., the 2nd red wire from the charger).
That's probably what I'll do in any event, because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
It's not a question of how much amperage; it's a question of flow control (or "interaction" as you correctly surmised at the beginning).
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
The EchoCharge is built exactly for what you wanna do. The charger's 2nd channel likely isn't as "smart". Leaving it connected could fool the EchoCharge into thinking the battery is at a higher level of charge than it really is.
It all depends on how the 10TB and Echo-Charge's outputs and sensing are designed. They might mess with one another and they might not. But, since the 10TB's two "channels" aren't really all that independent of one another, anyway, it makes more sense to remove all doubt and let the starter and house banks be handled the same at the dock as off the alternator: Main charge to the house bank, echo to the starting battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Without getting to a real design engineer familiar with that particular charger (and where do you find one at Xantrex these days?), I'd opt for the "clean" solution rather than trust to what someone told you over the phone.
Agreed.

Jim
09-09-2008 04:34 PM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
(and where do you find one at Xantrex these days?), I'd opt for the "clean" solution rather than trust to what someone told you over the phone.

Bill
Amen to that! Finding good tech support or getting someone on the phone that knows more about paint than how to open the can, when calling Interlux for example, is a tough one in this day and age.

It took four phone calls to Westerbeke to find out the nominal filtration rating of my engine mounted fuel filter. Four phone calls to find out that it's "spec" is 3 micron. Then they said "that's just the spec."..? "So are they a 3 micron or not?" "Well that is what we spec them at.."..

I guess that means they have no quality control, never randomly check batches, and the spec could be what ever the Chinese manufacturer decides???

Glad I'm not the only one who can't get through to anyone who knows their ass from their eyeball!
09-09-2008 04:24 PM
btrayfors No matter what Xantrex says, if you're gonna use an EchoCharge, I'd disconnect the second "channel" (i.e., the 2nd red wire from the charger).

It's not a question of how much amperage; it's a question of flow control (or "interaction" as you correctly surmised at the beginning).

The EchoCharge is built exactly for what you wanna do. The charger's 2nd channel likely isn't as "smart". Leaving it connected could fool the EchoCharge into thinking the battery is at a higher level of charge than it really is.

Without getting to a real design engineer familiar with that particular charger (and where do you find one at Xantrex these days?), I'd opt for the "clean" solution rather than trust to what someone told you over the phone.

Bill
09-09-2008 02:04 PM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Jim,

The TrueCharge 10TB charger can handle one battery bank just fine. Connect one red wire and one black wire to the desired battery bank (e.g., to the house bank).
Yes. Alternatively: I can leave the 10TB hooked up just the way it is, and hook the Echo-Charge up. Xantrex says they will not interfere with one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
The EchoCharge will work independently of the TrueCharge 10TB charger. Connect it to the start battery and the house battery bank per instructions which accompany the device.
Yes, of course.

Since the 10TB only has 10A max output, its behaviour using one channel run through the Echo-Charge would probably be the same as when using the two "channels," which aren't really very independent at all, it seems.

Jim
09-09-2008 12:48 PM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post

One thing that is obvious from all of these "how do I charge my batteries" threads is that there is a LOT of confusion out there! Is there a book that explains it all in a clear and concise manner for the layman? Perhaps Nigel Calder's book? (Which, I confess, is on my list but I haven't gotten around to reading yet.)
The problem with books is that they are only updated every so often and in between those times technology changes. Echo's, Duo's and Combiners, in the scheme of boats and books, are relatively "new to the scene".

I find the best and most current advice can be found on the net. It's a good idea to own Calder's books but when it comes to new or newer/newish technology Sailnet, Sailboatowners, Cruisers Forums, Plastic Classic Forums etc. etc. and the vast number of "brand" owner association forums are the places to go.

You can always read about new tech here or there then download manuals from the manufacturers web sites.
09-09-2008 12:03 PM
denverd0n
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors
The TrueCharge 10TB charger can handle one battery bank just fine.
Just so that I'm completely clear, when you use an EchoCharge type device you have no need, nor use, for a charger that can charge two banks independently. You only want to charge one bank anyway, and let the EchoCharge handle the other one.

One thing that is obvious from all of these "how do I charge my batteries" threads is that there is a LOT of confusion out there! Is there a book that explains it all in a clear and concise manner for the layman? Perhaps Nigel Calder's book? (Which, I confess, is on my list but I haven't gotten around to reading yet.)
09-09-2008 09:25 AM
btrayfors Jim,

The TrueCharge 10TB charger can handle one battery bank just fine. Connect one red wire and one black wire to the desired battery bank (e.g., to the house bank).

The EchoCharge will work independently of the TrueCharge 10TB charger. Connect it to the start battery and the house battery bank per instructions which accompany the device.

Bill
09-09-2008 09:08 AM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
You really have a 35A alternator?? Not 55A?
Yes, I really do have a 35A alternator, assuming it's the original/stock Motorola alternator with which Atomic-4s were fitted. I have no reason to believe otherwise, and it looks like the original I've seen in pictures.

Jim
09-09-2008 09:01 AM
SEMIJim Ok, everybody, thanks for your comments. Very much appreciated.

It looks like The Way To Go (for us, anyway) would be the Blue Sea Systems e-Series Battery Switch Dual Circuit Plus [tm]



coupled with the Xantrex Echo-Charge



I wonder what kind of interaction there would possibly be between the Xantrex Echo-Charge and the Xantrex TrueCharge 10TB charger? The Echo-Charge detects charging on the house bank and diverts up to 15A to the start battery. The 10TB is a dual-channel smart charger, that's going to want to handle each battery/bank independently. Guess I'll have to call/write Xantrex to ask them about that.

Thanks again, everybody. (Now I just have to convince The Admiral and Family CFO to let me spend Yet A Few More Bucks on this solution. Wish me luck!)

Jim
09-08-2008 11:03 PM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Halekai-

If the Blue Sea ACR gizmo is as smart as the Yandina/West combiner is, that scenario could not happen!
With a big enough alternator, say a Balmar 100 and a multi-stage regulator, you'd be hard pressed to see it ever drop bellow the 13.3 volts it takes to initiate the relay closing in the bulk phase.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Check the manual. If the house bank is so far depleted that it could suck the alternator and battery voltage below 13.6(?) volts--the combiner will open up and isolate the starting battery from the house bank again.
Yes the Yandina 50 & 150 do that but it begins the disconnect at 13.3 volts as opposed to 13.6 and then has a 30 second delay which I forgot about. My bad on the delay!


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
IIRC there's about a 90-second delay in the system so it doesn't chatter, but when the system voltage drops, for any reason, the Yandina combiner cuts out the second battery until the primary one has been brought back up to nominal voltage again.
Actually 30 seconds and yes I forgot about that, that's why I see my combiner cut out at 13 volts not 13.3..

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
The only real fault I've heard is that, after all, a relay can fail. And I agree, they can fail, but they're pretty damn reliable when they are sourced from prime sources to begin with. (As both the Yandina and BS probably are.)
Never had one fail!



P.S. RXBOT is right about the cut out voltage being too low for some float stages! I see my combiner cut out at 13 volts but that is after a 30 second delay from the 13.3 cut off hence my thinking it was 13 volts.

Sorry for my bad info on this! If you have an adjustable float voltage Yandina recommends upping it to 13.4-13.6 instead of the usual 13.2-13.4 for wet cells. My float drops to 13.2 so I'm most likely not float charging my start battery, will need to check it.

Darn 30 second delay screwed me all up...!
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