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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > DIY Daysailer
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-16-2008 01:10 AM
sailaway21 Here's the link to the new Chesapeake Light Craft (CLC) boat that baboon was trying to post. Nice lookin' boat.
Chesapeake Light Craft » Catalog » PocketShip » Boat Plans, Boat Kits, Kayak Kits, Canoe Kits, Sailboat Kits, Rowboat Kits, Paddleboard Kits, Boatbuilding Supplies, Boat Gear and Accessories, Kayaks, Canoes, Sailing Dinghies, Rowing Craft, Paddleboar
10-04-2008 11:34 AM
ckgreenman
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBrush View Post
I've pretty much parked it for the winter at this point. I don't really want to take the chance on going for a swim in October.

My sail is made of 6 mil polypropylene sheeting, aka plastic and duct tape. It was simply to get me up and running quickly and cheaply but it's also been a source of never-ending amusement with family and friends. My Christmas present is probably going to be a new dacron sail.

It's a lot of fun and it's been an education, especially in judging actual wind vs apparent wind as it very quickly shifts to the bow as the sail "powers up."

Bill
The 6 mil is probably ok for light winds (as mentioned above) but if you want something a little more robust (but still pretty cheap) you can use polytarp. In fact there is a company that sells polytarp sail (Polysail) kits.

White Polytarp Sails
10-04-2008 10:46 AM
BillBrush
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
Nor is your lake too big from the photos.
My only comments are that since the fall is here there will be stronger winds and your mast, booms and sail may take a little beating from some of the stronger gusts that will come. What is the sail material by the way?
My last comment concerns the height of the lower boom. It seems a bit high and you could get a bit more sail area out of it if it was lower. That would also mean that you might have to duck as the sail goes over your head.
In the 'semi-long term' scheme of things use the Duckling that you have created and figure out what it is you want to do more of. The autumn winds may or may not wreak havoc on your standing rigging but you will certainly figure this out too.

Looking good little Duck! Nice pictures with that see through sail too!
My best.
CalebD
I've pretty much parked it for the winter at this point. I don't really want to take the chance on going for a swim in October.

My sail is made of 6 mil polypropylene sheeting, aka plastic and duct tape. It was simply to get me up and running quickly and cheaply but it's also been a source of never-ending amusement with family and friends. My Christmas present is probably going to be a new dacron sail.

It's a lot of fun and it's been an education, especially in judging actual wind vs apparent wind as it very quickly shifts to the bow as the sail "powers up."

Bill
10-04-2008 10:24 AM
paulk If the lake you're heading towards is as small as it sounds, something like the Lightning suggested above seems to make a lot of sense. You might be able to find a used one, equipped with all you'd need, for about what materials alone would cost for some other design (try pricing out 10 sheets of marine-grade plywood, some oak for frames, and a gallon of fiberglass resin and some cloth.) With a boom tent, people have cruised long distances in Lightnings or similar boats. They're a lot nicer than a Snark. If you're still psyched to build, another design to consider would be the Norwalk Islands Sharpies, by Bruce Kirby. There are a variety of sizes, designed to be built by amateurs out of plywood. Either way, have fun!
10-04-2008 09:58 AM
blt2ski Quickly looking ar your first boat, weekend explorer, two boats come t mind that are similar, "Nancy's China" Sand glue plans and maybe kits are availible for this boat, an article in Wooden Boat IIRC was written about building it. Another from Glen-L designs in Cal. is the Glen-L 17. Altho not as salty as the other two you looked at. Clark craft has the Hartly boat plans, there is one fellow from down under where they originated with a 17/18' version fo the boat. I do not remember the lenth at this time either.

3-5 yrs to build a rig like you are looking at sounds about right. My stepdad built a Glen L 21 CB model in about that time. Then again as a teen it took me about 2 yrs to build an 8' pram, other things on my mind if you will.........will not go there.........

I have a list of about 8 boat plan places, along with kit style boats. Most can be found in the back end of a Woodenboat magizine, along with going to WoodenBoat Publications, WoodenBoat Magazine, Professional BoatBuilder Magazine, Small Boats Magazine and Getting Started in Boats. you can find plans and kits from them too of different boats. They also have a forum for builders, as does Glen-L designs too. I can do the list later tonight or sunday am if you like with links, not time at this moment.

Good luck.

Off to a race this am with 20-30 knot winds predicted.

Marty
10-04-2008 03:21 AM
CalebD
Your Duckling isn't so ugly.

Nor is your lake too big from the photos.
My only comments are that since the fall is here there will be stronger winds and your mast, booms and sail may take a little beating from some of the stronger gusts that will come. What is the sail material by the way?
My last comment concerns the height of the lower boom. It seems a bit high and you could get a bit more sail area out of it if it was lower. That would also mean that you might have to duck as the sail goes over your head.
In the 'semi-long term' scheme of things use the Duckling that you have created and figure out what it is you want to do more of. The autumn winds may or may not wreak havoc on your standing rigging but you will certainly figure this out too.
Setting up a racing sloop to sail and raising the mast can be a real disincentive which is why I moor my Lightning with the mast up (it saves about 45 minutes of setup time, all I have to do is paddle out to it and raise the sails which is done in about 15 minutes or less).
Looking good little Duck! Nice pictures with that see through sail too!
My best.
CalebD
10-04-2008 01:39 AM
BillBrush
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
Small sailboats (and don't be unnerved that people call them 'racing dighies' or just dinghies) are a blast and I would guess that more than 50% of those with much bigger boats learned to sail on them. Some of us still own day sailors as well as bigger, more gear intensive sailboats.
First of all, congrats on getting your 'Ugly Duckling' Sea Snark rigged up and working for so little $'s. That is impressive. I would like to see a picture to see how you did it so please post one here or put it in your profile.

Good luck and post a picture of your 'Duckie'.
Ah geez, I'm not sure about showing them in this forum, but I guess I'll share.

This is a link to my Picassa album. It shows the whole saga.

Picasa Web Albums - Bill - Duckling

This is one of my favorite pictures. so far.



I have to admit that a factor in being able to do this so cheaply is I had a lot of the materials already on hand. No wood was purchased, and the sail was made from materials I already had. Hardware and rope ran me about $35, and the life jackets and such were on end-of-summer clearance so they ran me just a bit over $25. Incidentals probably added a few more dollars.

The biggest factor was getting the hull, in reasonable condition, for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delirious View Post
But I'll tell you what. We can drive to a local reservoir and go from parking lot to sailing in 15 minutes with that Mud Hen. No shrouds, a tabernackle for the mast (I can step in by my self), boom gallows so the mast boom & gaff and sail can drop and be lashed down quickly.

I leave work and we go for a sail and have a picnic supper aboard. The simplicity of the rig gets us out there instead of watching TV baceuse there isn't time to set and tension a sloop.
Now this just pretty much sold me on the gaff rig. Nothing can point worse than my Snark so that's no problem, and I would love to be able to get underway quickly. Being able to get from the house to in the water in less than an hour is a big plus. That's one thing I love about my Duckling, I can be loaded and on my way to the lake in 15 minutes, and have it unloaded, rigged, and ready to launch in about 20. I store it in the garage, hanging from the rafters above where the car is parked, so it's really easy to just lower it down, throw on the cargo straps, and we're on our way.

Thanks for the input guys.

Bill
10-04-2008 12:33 AM
Delirious
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBrush View Post

Question 1: How does a gaff rig compare to a sloop in ease of sail and performance?

Question 2: Is there something close to what I am looking for that is a sloop rig?

Question 3: For puttering around a lake does the rig type really matter? I don't see myself really getting into racing, but after reading about travellers, boom vangs, topping lifts, spinakers, and such I may have an inflated sense of their necessity.

Question 4: What am I not taking into account?

Thank you for your help.

Bill
I have owned two gaff rigs. A Balsam Swamp Bateau homebulit (15-1/2ft open tack & tape design) that I had Robin Lincoln of Center Harbor Sails sew up a balanced lug (a gaff that extends past the mast) for and a Mud Hen 17. Still own the Mud Hen. You lose 5% to maybe 10% (depending on wind strength) of pointing to windward to a sloop. BUT, the Mud Hen surprises most sailboats I go up against for a gaff-rigged cat. It is light (650 lbs) and when heeled the hard chine and hull shape give lift and she does surprisingly well to windward. The local Siren 17's don't give me much trouble.

But the bottom line is the sloop beats all to windward - hands down.

Now, when I turn downwind and can wing out that (relatively) large main with no shrouds to interfere and pull the board up we scoot. No advantage to the sloop unless they're flying a big genoa with a whisker-pole.

But I'll tell you what. We can drive to a local reservoir and go from parking lot to sailing in 15 minutes with that Mud Hen. No shrouds, a tabernackle for the mast (I can step in by my self), boom gallows so the mast boom & gaff and sail can drop and be lashed down quickly.

I leave work and we go for a sail and have a picnic supper aboard. The simplicity of the rig gets us out there instead of watching TV baceuse there isn't time to set and tension a sloop.
10-04-2008 12:21 AM
CalebD
Bill, Your BO is no worse than mine, I think.

Small sailboats (and don't be unnerved that people call them 'racing dighies' or just dinghies) are a blast and I would guess that more than 50% of those with much bigger boats learned to sail on them. Some of us still own day sailors as well as bigger, more gear intensive sailboats.
First of all, congrats on getting your 'Ugly Duckling' Sea Snark rigged up and working for so little $'s. That is impressive. I would like to see a picture to see how you did it so please post one here or put it in your profile.

Next, I will have a go at your questions:
Question 1: How does a gaff rig compare to a sloop in ease of sail and performance?
The gaff rig is an older and saltier looking rig IMHO but will not crank out the speed that a taller mast sloop rigged vessel will. One reason is that the wind is generally stronger higher up. I have sailed on lateen rigged (Sunfish), gaff rigged (Catboat) and sloop rigged sailboats and the easiest to set up and just go sailing with is the lateen rig as it has the fewest controls. Next would be the gaff rigged, which, if it has a jib should perform better than lateen. The most performance you can get is from a sloop rigged racing dinghy but it is not as easy to do as it can have many more controls and may require hiking out and split second decision making which is more like work (but fun).

Question 2: Is there something close to what I am looking for that is a sloop rig?
Of course there is/are. Tons of small boat designs to choose from. The only question you need to answer for yourself is what you want and whether or not you want to make one of buy a used one.

Question 3: For puttering around a lake does the rig type really matter? I don't see myself really getting into racing, but after reading about travellers, boom vangs, topping lifts, spinakers, and such I may have an inflated sense of their necessity.
Do you have any of this equipment on the 'Ugly Duckling' and haven't you been out sailing on her? No, you don't need all that stuff, it is just fun to have once you get to know how to use it and when (why doesn't hurt either).
You say 'puttering around a lake' so I get the impression that the lake is fairly small (exact location might be interesting). Does your sailing dream include trailering your boat to a bigger body of water one day? If so, your 'inflated sense of their necessity' may be justified.

Question 4: What am I not taking into account?
Do you want to be able to do some overnights on this hypothetical boat?
The bigger the boat, the bigger the headaches and costs (under 20' is still not 'big' but once you throw in a trailer it adds more maintenance chores).

To finish I will mention that I own a 19' Lightning sloop that is rigged for racing. It is a one-class design and has: outhaul, spinnaker & pole, backstay tension rigging for raking the mast, jib 'cunningham', traveler and a vang (I know I am leaving something out). I still haven't rigged up the vang as I do not race with it yet but it sails rather quickly when the wind pipes up and can scare the crap out of my wife in a gust as it heels. This boat cost me $1K with a so-so trailer and 2 sets of sails (fire sale, right place at the right time) and costs me very little per year to sail it. I also am part owner in a 27' Tartan that does not have quite as much running rigging but costs waaay more per year to maintain as it has not trailer and is really not a trailer sailboat at 7200#. Cost per sail on the Lightning is waaay cheaper than the bigger boat but the bigger, heavier boat is safer for going out in 20kt + winds in as it will not capsize in most situations.
Good luck and post a picture of your 'Duckie'.
10-03-2008 10:43 PM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBrush View Post
Thanks. Honestly I frequently feel like a t-ball player in the Majors around here. My Snark has been a good introduction, but I clearly need something that doesn't require sitting cross-legged for hours at a time.
Yeah, I have a friend who is 6'4" and was much happier once he moved up to a 30' boat... anything below 20' was a bit tough on him.

Quote:
I love your optimism. :-) A cruiser might not ever be in my future since my wife tends to get motion sick, but maybe sometime I can go out as crew, or on a charter.
Larger boats are better than dinghies and small daysailers for most people.

Quote:
It does. After almost a full day with no replies I was starting to think I had BO or something. :-D

Bill
Yeah, I wasn't going to mention the BO problem... but take a shower and use a good deodorant... and you should be fine.
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