|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|08-26-2012 05:44 PM|
Re: Foam vs. wool for buffing, waxing, etc.
Just a few answers that are hard to find, Can someone exactly explain the dry buffing technique used by the pros, and the edging technique. If you mainly want to buff wet, should you load up your wool or foam pad first ( usually when you start with a new wool then add product and buff, it will typically remove all the compound leaving a dry/mostly dry trail behind the buffer) now should you redo that same area untill it leaves a wet trail and wipe off residue, or is that first part ok if you get the desired results. When starting with a new pad should you add more product at first. At what point is the pad loaded to much, in the article "tips for a great buff wax" a picture shows a wool pad heavily used/loaded with new product being added on top to be buffed. I always thought that at this point to pad is to loaded and should be changed, that it's the fibers that do most of the cutting, not an over loaded pad
|10-28-2008 11:54 AM|
|drlove||I really appreciate the help. I will post some pics when I am done.|
|10-28-2008 11:14 AM|
Blue tape works very well for taping over boot stripes and the buffer won't generally peel it..
|10-28-2008 11:11 AM|
Yes, of course I had to buff that too, dangit. So I'll go ahead and wax it. On the other side I will tape it off and not buff it so I will only wax down to the stripe.
If wax lasts you 8 months in Maine I will probably get 6 months here. Can I wash and wax if the shine is good or do you always need to polish before waxing?
|10-28-2008 10:03 AM|
While a wax won't really hurt Awlgrip it won't help much. My main concern is this. Did you buff the Awlgrip too? If so you will now ALWAYS need to wax it. Awlgrip should never be compounded!!!! It cures like a clear coat / base coat system with the clear solids rising to the surface of the paint creating a hard, high shine shell. If you buff through this layer it's toast!!
Essentially the linear polyester resins can not be re-melted, what actually happens when you compound or buff a painted surface, because the window time of time between melt & disintegrate is so narrow. It is nearly impossible, and totally impossible for a novice who has not had serious specialty training or woring with LPU's, to keep an LPU at the right temp to re-melt without destroying it in the process. It sort of goes like this when buffing Awlgrip.
To cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, right temp for a split second, destroyed.......
Acrylic two part paints such as Imron can be buffed because the re-melt window is much wider and they don't cure the same as an LPU. The pigment on an acrylic LPU is the ful thickness not sitting under the clear solids..
This photo illustrates a destroyed Awlgrip finish. Note the shine on the majority of the hull even after many years. Now look at the center of the photo and you'll notice a large dull area. This is what happens when you chew through Awlgrips "protective shell". It is destroyed...
|10-28-2008 09:34 AM|
I had asked "how long can I wait after polishing to apply wax" because I have already compounded and if I have to order some wax, the boat may have to sit a week or two before the wax arrives. However if you say the Tre-Wax is good I will just go get that if there is no Collinite available.
At this stage the shine is good so I will go to polishing on the current side.
New question: My boot stripe is Awlgrip. Do I have to get Awlcare just for the stripe or can that small amount of paint be waxed?
|10-28-2008 09:20 AM|
P600 wet sand paper is used the same exact way as P1500. The only difference is in the shine produced..
You can also buy it at Auto-Geek.com.
|10-27-2008 11:53 PM|
Yes, the pad I am using is the 05711. I have not burned anything with this pad but I did not have good results with a foam pad but I was using faster rpms and was completely buffing away the compound. I feel comfortable with the wool pad at any rpm but will need to slow it down with foam and use more compound.
Okay, here's where I'm at. I have already sanded and compounded one side of the boat. Are you saying I should compound it again with Super Duty or can I go on to polishing? Do you use the mist bottle of water with the polish as well?
As far as I know, I can't get Collinite around here unless I order it and then I have to wait for delivery (I haven't called all of the paint places in Tulsa so I may be able to find some). How long after compounding and polishing can I wait to put wax on? I can get the Super Duty and Finesse-it readily. West Marine has the Tre-Wax you mentioned in the detailed instructions. If I can't get Collinite which of the Tre-Wax vs Meguiars #16 would you recommend?
I will take the NXT back tomorrow
Thanks again for the help, I appreciate it.
|10-27-2008 11:15 PM|
As a novice if you use 1850 rpm you will be burning pads and compounds and also at risk for burning and discoloring the gelcoat. Don't do it until you get really good and develop "feel". If you have to ask what "feel" is you're not there yet. When you get there you'll know it.. I wrote those instructions for DIYers using Pro grade products.
This is why I recommend a dedicated compound vs. a "compound that turns into a polish". The only diminishing grit products I really like and recommend are Presta Ultra Cutting Creme & Presta Chroma 1500. You can still run it slow and it still diminishes but one is till a compound that diminishes to offer a low grade polish and the other is a polish that diminishes to a low grade glaze. Presta is hard to find but simply one of the best products in it's class. You will only find it at autobody distributors/wholesalers.
Contrary to popular belief you can't simultaneously compound and polish with a diminishing grit using a compound grade pad. The compound grade pad is just to aggressive to produce a polish grade shine. On the other hand if you use a lighter grade polishing pad then you can't compound effectively. I know very confusing..Using that compound with a compound grade pad will give good compounding grade results with perhaps a finer shine than Super Duty Compound but you'd need to really start at a P800 -P1000 grit wet sand and not a P600. Either way you'll still need to follow up with Finesse It II or a product like Presta Chroma 1500. I'd stick with Finesse It II and Super Duty marine rubbing compound.
I would almost certainly guarantee, based on day one water beading vs. day 10 of NXT, that it has a LOT more than 2%. Mike Phillips of Meguiars also will not state what level of silicone it has in it and all he'll say is that it is definitely not body shop safe. Silicone in waxes give good initial shine, and this helps to sell product. It is also a cheap filler but also a huge cheat. A fair amount of the silicone oils are washed away during the first wash or rain and you are then left with the meat and bones of the product. With NXT I found very little meat & bones under the "essential" oils.. I tried NXT on my dinghy bottom, I test products there to see how they retard tannin staining, and it lasted all of about two weeks in the ocean before rust and tannins started adhering to the hull. I used in on my wife's car and was not impressed there either. If you want a very good Meguiars wax use #16 Professional Paste Wax. It's a pure carnuba based wax and is comparable to P21S, Collinite Fleet #885 and other true carnuba's.
NXT is a MUCH cheaper consumer grade product for Meguiars to produce and as such they can make more margin. Pure carnuba based waxes are expensive and offer little margin for the manufacturer but they are the most durable of real waxes, but only in paste form.
If you don't want to use a carnuba then my suggestion would be a dirt cheap product called Nu-Finish. It's a polymer that holds up surprisingly well in saltwater marine environment and in my opinion beats the pants off most of the marine rated "liquids" in longevity.
Compounding Grade Pad #05711 (LINK)
Wool Polishing Grade Pad #05713 (LINK)
Foam Polishing Grade Pad #05725 (LINK)
|10-27-2008 09:46 PM|
Thanks for your reply Maine Sail, I was hoping you would respond. I had read some of your earlier posts but I did not see the one linked by SD. However:
I am assuming the answer to my question is no, there are no different speeds for foam vs wool. I did not see any specific speeds listed in the detailed instructions. The Perfect-It III listed 1850 rpm as optimal. What do you think? The Perfect-It III is also a diminishing grit type compound and 3M lists it as their best gelcoat compound (just relating that, don't know whether it is true or not). It is a fairly new product. The shine I got with it and the 3M Superbuff wool pad was very good.
So the next step is to use Finesse-It polish with a foam pad? What speed (I guess I should say rpm)? Do I also put enough on that there is wet polish to wipe off or should I buff it dry?
Wax: I live in Oklahoma. VERY hot in summer. The hull is white but I am worried about Carnauba Wax. Is there a problem with the Meguiar's NXT polymer paste wax? It doesn't say silicone anywhere on it.
Thanks again, I will probably have more questions but I will try not to get to the anal-retentive phase!
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