|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|12-06-2004 07:07 AM|
well, I am over 50 and I am in the process of finding the right boat to live comfortably aboard 6 months and to travel a lot. I have searched a lot and I am particularly interessed in Pilot houses that sail properly, so perhaps I can give some information and anwser Halyardz question :
"Can a "pilothouse" boat be designed to maximize the sailing ability and still do 6-8kts under power?"
Yes, there are some that are really fast, almost as fast as their sister cruiser-racers and the place to look for them is the North of Europe, where the love for sail is big and the climate doesn''t help.
In Europe we call the pilot houses Deck Saloons... I know that in absolute terms it is not the same thing, but even when they are more of a pilot house than a deck saloon, they call them DS anyway.
So, to my knowledge, very fast to fast DSs you have from Sweden the CR 40DS, The Arcona 40ds, the Fantasia 44ds, from Holland the Eversail 40ds, from Dennmark, the Luffe 43 Ds.
Between the reasonably fast DSs with great seaworthiness (having in many cases an AVS superior to 150º) you have, from Sweden the Regina af Vindo 38 and 43, from Denmark the Nordship 38 and 43 ds, from Finland the Degero 38 and The Nauticats 37, 39 and 42 (those are not motor-sailors).
Those are small companies that have only DSs in their range of models.
All those boats are very well built, ocean boats, semi-custom and all can be sailed from the interior, with good to reasonable view all around, some by joystick (autopilot), some through a proper wheel. Unfortunately they are expensive, but they are boats for a life time, in my opinion.
All of them can cruise at 7 Knots under power and sail easily between 6 and 7 knots and some like the Luffe 43 even a lot faster.
Jeff_h had said :
"I find pilothouse boats harder to single-hand. It is much harder to see from the aft cockpit and so you end up having to keep moving around to check for traffic. It is harder to route control lines past the cabin so you end up moving around the boat much more.... . You can''t see the jib from the windward side of the boat because the pilothouse is in the way making upwind sailing much harder."
I don''t think that this applies to some of those boats. The cockpits are raised and you have a clear view over the DSs, and almost all of them have smart ways to deal with control lines (take a look at the Luffe 43 DS) and can easily be handled from the cockpit..in fact most of them are designed to be easily single handed.
If someone knows about modern fast sailing oceangoing American Pilot houses between 38 and 43 foot, that cost no more than US$400000 (all included), please share with me.
|12-05-2004 05:14 PM|
The Tayana 37 is a good example of the same hull being built both as a pilothouse and aft cockpit boat and illustrates Jeff,s point that a pilothouse is irrelevent to being a motorsailer.
|12-03-2004 02:31 PM|
I always thought that the prettiest pilot house boats were two that were in Arthur Beiser''s old book "the Proper Yacht".
Cardhu p97 Small deckhouse 41 loa and 10''9" beam
Love her above the waterline, hate her hull form below.
She''d be beautiful in fiberglass w a new underbody.
Laurient & Giles
Glass Slipper p175 48'' loa and 12'' 9"
Same reactions E G van de Stadt
I was lucky enough to buy the book from the library next to my high school in 197_. Most enjoyable use of a dollar.
|11-28-2004 02:26 PM|
Possibly your not thinking of this kind of pilot house sailboat but I''ve owned a Corbin 39 for over 23 years. She has a flush deck and a small raised piolt house. I installed inside and outside hydrulic steering stations in her. When you are outside it is just like any other sailboat and I can single handle her just fine. When the weather gets bad (we''ve been out with seas breaking over the bow and washing down the length of the decks and over the pilot house)you better believe it''s better in the pilot house. Check out the owners group website www.corbin39.com.
|11-21-2004 04:17 PM|
I considered the trawler route . . . but decided to go pilothouse/motorsailor. Racing in sailboats, lately, is not my goal. I''ve had a few fast powerboats and several smaller sailboats. Therefore, my vision of boat "beauty" may be different from most "traditional" sailboaters.
The Nauticat 33, in my mind, was the best selection for my wife and I, combination of build quality, spacious living quarters and good looks.
During sea trials, my surveyor recorded on GPS our motor speed at 8.3 knots (against current) and sailed 6 knots, full ketch rig at 33 degrees into a 12 knot wind.
That''s fast enough for me.
After 54 years of life, having choices is a good thing.
|11-21-2004 03:40 PM|
But doesn''t the discussion beg the question...Can a "pilothouse" boat be designed to maximize the sailing ability and still do 6-8kts under power?
The raised salon designs aren''t that attractive, except for the extra light.
I''ve long wished for a compromise boat of this nature...the benefits of a pilothouse without the usual tradeoffs. I suspect too that as some of us get older, protection from the elements can become an issue...and more than one of our listers has gone the trawler route.
|11-05-2004 02:19 PM|
I don''t think of myself as ''purist'' as much as a therosist. I am only commenting on the impacts of various trade offs, not on their universal desirability. As has been said here many times, all boats are trade off''s and there is no single universally correct answers when it comes to sailing preferences, any more than a case could be made that vanilla ice cream is universally superior to strawberry.
|11-05-2004 05:22 AM|
A sail performance purist you are, Jeff_H.
As I suggested earlier, the perfect sailboat will be defined differently by each sailor you ask. Motorsailors are a unique design intended for a select group of boaters. The fact that Siltalia Yachts of Finland is still producing Nauticats, after launching over 4000 during the past 30 years, must offer some support to the success of the design.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
|11-05-2004 02:51 AM|
Thank you for pointing out that there are some ''work-arounds'' for the visibility issue such as a raised after deck/cockpit area. This of course comes at the price of an increase in motion for the helmsman and a higher weight in the ends of the boat increasing pitching resulting in a decreased motion comfort,and higher weight and windage above the waterline reducing stability.
|11-05-2004 01:57 AM|
Thank you for your knowlegable clarification to my reply Jeff_H . . . I stand corrected on the difference between pilothouse sailboats and motorsailors.
I do agree with your assessments of motorsailors. However, I feel the need to amend your observation that forward visibility of pilothouse sailboats is obscured from the aft helm by the pilothouse. This may be true with most pilothouse boats, where the aft deck helm is level (or below) the foredeck level. My pilothouse sailing experience is mostly limited to my Nauticat 33, with a poop deck raised such that it affords excellent forward visibility with a good view of all sails.
I also have good control of the headsail, with sheets directed aft by lead blocks to two winches mounted upon the pilothouse roof . . . inches from the helm. Going forward is necessary though, to work the main and staysail. I am still on the uphill side of the learning curve . . . but do immensely enjoy the boat.
One downside to this raised deck arrangement, is the position of the mizzen mast over the pilothouse roof. The resulting boom''s position causes the mizzen sail to obscure some lee side visibility unless one crouchs down . . . not terrribly inconvenient, but the boom creates a potential hazard in an uncontroled gibe or when coming about.
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