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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > In mast furling
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Thread: In mast furling Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-16-2009 11:43 PM
petmac My boat had inmast furling when I bought her. Replaced the mast after one season. I didn't like the weight of the mast (almost 400 lbs), the depth of the section, and the lack of roach on a battenless sail. The rig was noisy at anchor when the wind blew. Furling or reefing was a bit of a chore when the wind pipped up. Finally,the boat's performance really suffered with this set up.I replaced the rig with a carbon spar 4 1/2 ft higher (160 lbs) and now have a Selden boom with single line reefing together with a dutchman. The main is full batten and is on a Harken batt car system. Reefing lines and main halyard lead back to the cockpit. This system has worked very well.
11-16-2009 10:44 PM
cutterorient All true. To each his own. It did work - although flawless is a pretty big word in any context - to its credit. An analogue may be this; I use a Bruce as my primary anchor. Others may favor other designs that work. For reasons unnecesary to write here, I deploy the Bruce.

Sometimes after using a piece of gear I have not used before I say 'Wow thats great'. Sometimes I am very happy to have what I have. My intention was to say simply I have used it and wouldn't want it.

In what is likely another unpoular view here, I feel being 'able to do everything' from the cockpit is overrated. And unrealistic.
11-16-2009 09:58 PM
danielgoldberg
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutterorient View Post
Dan, same boat. I would not want my feelings on the gear to reach its owner, however. Its a decent piece of gear and I didn't mean to sound harsh. Given the choice, personally, I would still choose the old fashioned variety.

The rally was great fun, nice work on it. I only sailed the leg back though and it was a beam reach for about 4 days. Wet dream.
Thanks for the kind words. I won't say anything to them, but you did just post it on the Internet.

Funny, I asked them about it specifically when they got to Bermuda, and the weather going down was far worse than that going home. They said it worked flawlessly. Go figure.
11-16-2009 09:19 PM
cutterorient Dan, same boat. I would not want my feelings on the gear to reach its owner, however. Its a decent piece of gear and I didn't mean to sound harsh. Given the choice, personally, I would still choose the old fashioned variety.

The rally was great fun, nice work on it. I only sailed the leg back though and it was a beam reach for about 4 days. Wet dream.

A new neighbor passing through has a roller boom which he has been satisfied with. It carries full battens and he says is not tempermental.
11-16-2009 12:32 PM
MJBrown I've sailed several boats with in mast furling in winds ranging from 20-30 kts and only had trouble furling on two of them. Both because the boats were recently rigged and the halyards stretched from the heavier winds. On one I tensioned the halyard and all was well. On the other I waited for a lull, headed up and worked it back in. In both cases I should have reefed sooner than I did. If I had done so I doubt I would have had issues with either.

As for less power that's more of an issue with the older mains without the battens. Still not the same as a full main but much better than they were. No problems hitting hull speeds so not an issue in my book.
11-16-2009 11:56 AM
Cruisingdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk View Post
I would run the other way from in-mast furling, for the reasons mentioned above and:
1. noise at anchor from wind whistling in the slot
2. "Operator error" most likely at most inopportune moment
3. lack of battens making sail shape a nonsense term
4. lack of battens making sail noise (flapping) and wearing sail out sooner
5. vertical battens (if you have them) that WILL poke through their pockets and get stuck inside the mast
5. reefing keeps sail area high on the mast when you want it there least
6. how to fix things that jam 20' up in a 5' sea (it won't jam when it's flat)

It sounds to me that though many people may profess to enjoying their in-mast r/f systems, they're like the fox who lost his tail in the trap. Boom-mounted systems, though they may have some of the same and other issues, seem to make much more sense.
This subject comes up a lot which was why I started the debate on it. First of all, Paulk, I have alays appreciated your posts here and find that you and I agree on things almost all of the time. However...

WHat is your first hand experience with Inmast? I used to think just like you did BEFORE I owned one. Not now.

1. I have never had this happen, and we get some really wispy winds in N Texas. In fact, the loudest boat in the marina is a Panda 38 about three slips down (trad main) that can almost keep everyone else awake at night. This is not an issue I have had or have ever heard anyone with Inmast complain about. I will also add that all you need is one fellow with a AirX or similar in the anchorage and you wouldn't hear a thing on your boat anyways... or my kids blaring Thomas the Train Engine for that matter.

2. I do not buy this point at all. Operator error is operator error and not a factor of the sytsem. I was very clear in my debate on the other thread that if you try and reef a inmast like a traditional slab, you will screw it up. But isnt' this true for all things nautical? Learn how to work them. Imagine the guys transitioning from square sails to....

3. That is the concern I have shared too. I have found the main on Inmast much more depowered than on traditional and was almost a deal killer at first (spoke to another 400 owner about trading masts).

4. I do not agree. And let;s not forget the UV exposure and elements exposure of a slab reefed sail laying across the boom versus an inmast protected inside the mast.

5. Do not have them so cannot comment.

5. Not sure I completely agree there either. And let's not forget to discuss two huge [ositieves with inmast versus trad:
a. You can do EVERYTHING from the cockpit. I have always had to go forward in a rolling sea and blow to reef (or before hand) and make sure everything is lashed down hard. In a strong rolling sea, the T-slides always seemed to get stuck on the track and we had to pull them down by hand about three feet over the gooseneck on our 380.
b. This one is very important: You have a second, traditional, T-Track on Inmast (at least mine). THis allows you to rig a trysail and the base of the mast and keep it as a spare secondary. Many people did not know this. So you could in fact reef your inmast completely in and pull out a trysail as a storm sail. Interesting huh?

6. No dissagreeing with you there. That is the concern. I guess your best option is to release the outhaul and wrap it around the mast, but no option for fixing it is pretty.

Anyways, as I have said, I find that most of the people who have owned these actually like them. I find that most of the people who are negative on them either have never had much use on the NEW ones, or theyir experience is on the old ones which apparently had problems.

I have NOT given the system my full support yet. I have been out in some nice blows, but never out at sea with it in a storm. I will reserve my full support until I see how she does offshore in a blow in a nice sea. That is when things always want to jam.... not in the wind but in the seas. I guess I will find out soon. I will put no less than 450 - 500 miles on her in the next few weeks when we sail across the gulf. I will report back then with my opinions.

Brian
11-16-2009 11:19 AM
danielgoldberg
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutterorient View Post
FWIW, I sailed on a boat from Bermuda to NY with an in mast furler and that pretty much made up my mind. Even the owner didn't fully trust it and it was stock from the factory on a french boat starting with j. The leech was thrashed and made noise the entire way, sail shape was poor. Any convenience seemed offset by a nagging feeling of uncertainty.
What was the name of the boat? We had a Jeanneau with a roller furling main on our rally last year, they had some real weather (a gale) and reported no problems. Just curious if it's the same boat.
11-16-2009 09:00 AM
MJBrown Once they're set up (halyard tension is key) they're fine. You have to head up to furl, unfurl but you would do that with any sail. I've been heaving to then furling the main and it works like a charm. The genny blankets the main which makes furling a snap. As for troubles, if it starts to jam you just pull it back in a foot or two, take the wind out of it and pull it back out. People get into trouble when they try to force it. BTW a standard main is now "optional" but not sure if there's a cost to it. I think it depends on the manufacturer.
11-15-2009 10:55 PM
cutterorient FWIW, I sailed on a boat from Bermuda to NY with an in mast furler and that pretty much made up my mind. Even the owner didn't fully trust it and it was stock from the factory on a french boat starting with j. The leech was thrashed and made noise the entire way, sail shape was poor. Any convenience seemed offset by a nagging feeling of uncertainty.

For kicking around a bay on a small boat, I think it would be great.

On my boat I have the Tides Marine Strong Track and think it a terrific thing as well as being very simple - just the way I like it. Main goes up by hand and down as fast as you want it to.

I don't even like my headsail furler. It is often a p.i.t.a. but it just so happens to make for convenient storgae of a large sail. My staysail is a hank on and I can report 100 % function and zero problems. Plus it looks cool.
11-15-2009 12:09 AM
Vitesse473 Probably the best advice I can give is something any long time boat owner will appreciate and agree with. That is...the less mechanical devices you deal with, the happier the sailor you will be in the long run.

I'm totally biased, as I sought out a Bene that did not have the mast furler. It's 1) mechanical, 2) not safe in heavy weather, and 3) slow

I love my stack pack. The hoist is a breeze, the drop is a snap. After I drop, it's a simple zip of the pack. Lot's easier than dealing with a jam.

Full disclosure. I have thought about how great the in boom furling would be, but again, it's mechanical and bound to break, and I've much better things to spend money on.
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