|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|01-18-2012 03:18 PM|
- 2009 sailed Buffalo to Rimouski, Quebec
- 2010 sailed Rimouski, Quebec to north of Nain, Labrador and then down to Port Saunders, Newfoundland.
- 2011 sailed from Port Saunders, Newfoundland clockwise around Newfoundland and then over to Nova Scotia
- 2012 sailed from Nova Scotia to Iles de la Madeleine and sold the evenSong
See KrazySailing for logs and pictures
|04-06-2010 02:11 PM|
Freinds chipping in
They can hip in and you are not a commercial vessel as long as it's not for profit.
Looks like the reasoning is to ensure passengers are only carried on inspected vessels that meet certain requirements and hence are "safe". Whereas guests take their chances are and dependent on themselves and the owner/captain and some minimum safety requirements.
|04-06-2010 02:08 PM|
I'd guess that the Canadians have a proviso similar to the US, where if the renumeration is VOLUNTARY, you are still a pleasure craft. The key in the US at least is whether the renumeration is voluntary or not.
Originally Posted by ottos View Post
|04-06-2010 01:53 PM|
"Marine Safety Bulletin TP13699E entitled "Guidelines on Non-Passenger Bare-Boat Charter Parties" is also of some assistance in identifying whether a vessel is being used for pleasure. In this Bulletin Transport Canada makes it clear that if the owner is receiving any form of remuneration from persons being carried on board the vessel then the persons being carried are "passengers" and the vessel is not being used for pleasure. The Department allows, however, that a simple sharing of expenses will not convert a pleasure purpose to a commercial purpose."
Select Issues Relating to Pleasure Craft
|04-06-2010 01:29 PM|
|04-06-2010 12:58 PM|
Chartered? In Canada: Guest or passenger
In Canada it all comes down to:
- Is the person a passenger or guest?
- Is the owner is receiving any form of remuneration for the use of the vessel?
- Is there an expectation of profit?
Canada Shipping Act, 2001
Canada Shipping Act - Definitions
“passenger” means a person carried on a vessel by the owner or operator, other than
(a) a person carried on a Safety Convention vessel who is
(i) the master, a member of the crew or a person employed or engaged in any capacity on board the vessel on the business of that vessel, or
(ii) under one year of age;
(b) a person carried on a vessel that is not a Safety Convention vessel who is
(i) the master, a member of the crew or a person employed or engaged in any capacity on board the vessel on the business of that vessel, or
(ii) a guest on board the vessel, if the vessel is used exclusively for pleasure and the guest is carried on it without remuneration or any object of profit;
(c) a person carried on a vessel in pursuance of the obligation on the master to carry shipwrecked, distressed or other persons or by reason of any circumstances that neither the master nor the owner could have prevented; or
(d) a person of a prescribed class.
« embarcation de plaisance »
“pleasure craft” means a vessel that is used for pleasure and does not carry passengers, and includes a vessel of a prescribed class.
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) - Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) - Small Vessels - Design, Equipment & Boating Safety - Marine Safety - Marine Transportation - Transport Canada
What's the definition of a passenger?
The definition of "passenger", as found in the Canada Shipping Act 2001 is as follows: “passenger” means a person carried on a ship by the owner or operator, other than
a. A person carried on a Safety Convention ship who is
o the master, a member of the crew or a person employed or engaged in any capacity on board the ship on the business of that ship, or (ii) under one year of age,
b. A person carried on a ship that is not a Safety Convention ship who is
o the master, a member of the crew or a person employed or engaged in any capacity on board the ship on the business of that ship, or (ii) a guest on board the ship, if the ship is used exclusively for pleasure and the guest is carried on it without remuneration or any object of profit,
c. A person carried on a ship in pursuance of the obligation on the master to carry shipwrecked, distressed or other persons or by reason of any circumstances that neither the master nor the owner could have prevented, or special purpose personnel
How do I determine if I'm carrying passengers or guests?
The basic consideration when deciding which category a vessel should fit is whether the person(s) carried on board are passengers or not.
The situation is clearer where the vessel owner also operates it and there is no form of charter party in existence. In this situation, you have to examine the relationship between the owner and the people on board. If any of them are paying money for their carriage on the vessel, then they will be deemed to be passengers and the vessel will come within Transport Canada’s regime. If the owner is receiving any form of remuneration for the use of the vessel, even if not directly from the persons carried, then they will be passengers. If the persons are guests, there is no form of remuneration and the vessel is being used exclusively for pleasure they will not be passengers and the vessel will be under pleasure craft regime. This would include the situation where an owner invites some friends for a trip on his pleasure craft. If the sole purpose of the trip is pleasure and there is no commercial element or intent then they will not be passengers.
For Further information:
Bulletin No.: 14/2000 - Ship Safety Bulletins - Marine Safety - Marine Transportation - Transport Canada
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/...y/tp14070e.pdf Small Commercial Vessel Safety Guide, Chapter 1, Passenger or Guest
|04-06-2010 09:43 AM|
I don't know about the rules in Canada - but I thought that he stays firmly in the shared costs arena, which would make it a non-commercial trip (by my naive understanding of US rules). It is obviously different than a more standard arrangement of captains picking up all on board costs, but I would think still firmly non-commercial. Not much different than some buddies planning a trip together, except they don't know each other yet.
Am I wrong?
Originally Posted by Halberdier View Post
|04-05-2010 05:35 PM|
Be aware that Halberdier is not looking for crew, but for people to share his sailing adventures as you will be paying for the privilege. As such, this may constitute chartering the boat rather than crewing and the legal situation may be slightly different than going as unpaid, non-contributing crew.
|04-05-2010 04:14 PM|
Crew Wanted - Sail to Labrador, Canada
See Canada as few have.
Sail from Rimouski, Quebec, Canada up North along Labrador coast to The Torngats National Park.
Join for all or part.
Sailing experience not necessary.
Sail with good weather, we will wait out the bad.
Stopovers, sightseeing and side trips to be decided.
Looking for up to three persons to join me in a sail from Rimouski, Quebec along the North Shore of Quebec, Southern Labrador and up the Labrador coast to the Torngats National Park, We will return down the Labrador coast to Newfoundland and then over to Nova Scotia. There will be lots of interesting people, incredible scenery (several fiords), icebergs, whales, seals, porpoises, seabirds and perhaps even some polar bears. The plan is to leave mid June with a slow cruise from Rimouski to Southern Labrador. A slow cruise in the sense of taking time to explore as we will not be coming back that way and to get the boat and crew up to speed before we swing through the Strait of Bell Isle and into the Labrador Sea.
Join for all or part of the cruise.
Sailing experience appreciated, but not necessary. Your involvement in the actual sailing depends upon your interest and abilities. Getting along and adaptability is necessary.
A few Web Sites of Interest:
This is a link to a fellow who singlehaned the trip, gives a god idea of the scenery; Travel Photos, Bali, Thailand, Vietnam, China, Greece, Turkey, Sailing Guide and Photos, Newfoundland, Labrador and Greenland
Torngat National Park; http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/nl/torngats/index.aspx
Climbing the highest peak in Easter Canada;
Pictures of the Torngats; Canadian Parks - A Park for all Seasons - Torngat - Episode 7
It's even been done daysailer; YouTube - Dinghy Sailing in Labrador, Part 1
Tourist site: Visitor Services : Labrador Coastal Drive
Ferry Service in Northern Labrador Goose Bay - Rigolet - Cartwright - Black Tickle - Ports North To Nain
Getting to the Park http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/nl/torngat...s-maps/1a.aspx
- Sail or motor with good weather. Rain is good weather, fog is OK, strong winds are not. The cockpit (the part of the boat where we sit when sailing) has a permanent cover that keeps us pretty warm and dry.
- Sail by day, at night anchor (most of the time) or tie up in a harbour or marina. Once everyone is comfortable with sailing there may be some overnight legs if we want to make time.
- The route, stopovers, sightseeing, hikes ashore and side trips to be decided as a group.
- Breakfast and supper at anchor, lunch while underway, restaurants on occasion.
- Leave mid June, 2010 and reach Nova Scotia early to mid September, 2010. It’s a 2,500 nautical mile trip.
A tentative schedule, based upon guesstimates of weather and before your input:
Date Nautical Port Ports in Type of Transportation Services to or at port
Miles to between Port Air Road Ferry
======== ======= =============== =========== =========== =========== =======
15-Jun-10 Rimouski Yes Medium, connected Yes TransCanada Yes
19-Jun-10 150 Sept Isles Yes Medium, connected Yes Yes Yes
27-Jun-10 275 Harrington Harbour Yes Small, isolated Yes No Yes
1-Jul-10 125 Corner Brook Yes Medium, connected Yes TransCanada No
9-Jul-10 275 Blanc Sablonc Yes Small, connected Yes Yes Yes
12-Jul-10 110 Mary's Harbour Yes Small, connected Yes Yes Yes
16-Jul-10 140 Cartwright Yes Small, connected Yes Gravel Road Yes
20-Jul-10 150 Makkovik No Small, isolated Yes No Yes
23-Jul-10 100 Hopedale Yes Small, isolated Yes No Yes
25-Jul-10 65 Natuashiush No Small, isolated Yes No Yes
28-Jul-10 110 Nain No Small, isolated Yes No Yes
7-Aug-10 325 Torngat National Park No Isolated Charter No Charter
10-Aug-10 125 Cape Chidley No Isolated Charter No No
2-Oct-10 1950 New Glasgow,NS
Semi-retired male, sailed a lot in his twenties, Canadian Power Squadron courses, Canadian Red Cross Wilderness Remote First Aid course. In 2006 purchased a 59 foot sailboat in Boston, fixed it up and motored to Nova Scotia. Purchased the current sailboat in Buffalo, New York in 2008 and worked on it for four months to upgrade systems. Sailed the current sailboat from Buffalo to Rimouski last fall with crews of one to three others and two days single-handed .
A 1967 Moody Halberdier, 36 foot fiberglass ketch, classified as a motorsailer. Sleeps 5 in a three cabin layout (forward, main and aft). Was professionally surveyed in 2008.
The previous owner started a major rebuild of the galley and dining area. I have built temporary dining and cooking areas with a large sink, a table, seating, lots of drawers and work spaces. It’s functional and comfortable. Cooking will be on a camp stove and heat is supplied by a Sigmar diesel fueled heater/stove. The cooking and heating stoves be replaced by a Dickinson diesel cook stove with oven. Currently, there is only running cold water in kitchen sink. I will be installing more amenities including running hot water before we go.
Lots of safety equipment; liferaft, radios, cellphone, lifejackets, dingy, pumps, generator, tools, etc.
Can send photos. This is the owners group for this model of sailboat:
Halberdiers : Halberdier Owners Group
What do you need?
- A sunny disposition
- Dress for success: warm clothes, raingear, floater suite, personal lifejacket, sneakers, boots.
- Will send a detailed list of suggestions.
There are only two rules:
- Number Two: Have as much fun as possible at all times, except that:
- Number One: Safety is always the first priority
As we share the fun, we share the sailing, cooking, cleaning, etc. to your abilities and skills. We decide, as a group, the itinerary, how much sailing or motoring we do, the meals, the entertainment, etc. As I, the captain, has some legal responsibility of your safety, I may override the group’s decisions because of weather or mechanical breakdown.
We equally share the costs of food, fuel for the engine, cooking and heating, engine oil, filters and marina fees. Fuel is $0, if we sail all day, or $24 to $50 if we motor all day ($8 - $16 each if three of us). Fuel and food costs more the further North we go. We will buy as much as we can carry down South, Marinas charge from $5 to $75 per night. The boat and any repairs, unless you do something you were told not to do and break a part, are paid for by the captain. Allow up to $150 each for navigation charts and books we need for the trip.
What do you need to do/have to be selected?
- Send me an e-mail or contact me through the web site on which you found this ad. Send me a few lines on your skills and why you want to join us.
- A pleasant personality is critical. We will be living in the equivalent of a small bachelor apartment for two months, so getting along is critical. I want all of us to come back alive
- A flexible attitude; we will change plans and roles as we go and get familiar with our abilities. The weather sets the schedule (in the extreme we may have to sit at harbour for a week waiting for good weather. We all will share cooking, cleaning and boat chores.
- A can do attitude. There will be lots of setbacks, let’s not let then ruin our cruise. If something needs to be done, volunteer.
- Able to have friendly discussion on timetable, itinerary, sightseeing, trips ashore , routes, waiting-out weather, chores and respect the group’s decisions.
- Neatness matters. We will be have lots of gear and limited space, so it is important to respect everyone’s space and store equipment in it’s proper place.
- First Aid training as we will be in remote areas and perhaps days away from assistance (essential to have before joining).
If you meet these requirements, having one or more of the following skills increase your chances.
- Sailing or boating training and experience.
- Outdoor or wilderness experience. Our boat is a not a cruise liner, though being used to roughing-it will make her seem like one.
- A great cook is always appreciated.
- Mechanically inclined.
- Geological, history or naturalist skills to interpret the environment.
- Non-smoker preferred. Smoking only allowed on aft deck in good weather.
- No drugs.
You can contact me at KrazySailing@live(dot)com