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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > To Scuttle Or Not To Scuttle?
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Thread: To Scuttle Or Not To Scuttle? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-29-2011 04:45 AM
brpyrate
Non-Disposable Boats

1.ANY reason to NOT pay out on a Marine Insurance Policy will be taken advantage of by the Insurer.
(Unless SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN into the Contract "Scuttling" claims will be denied.)
2.USCG MIGHT have an Opinion on "Scuttling",If the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) applies.[Look it Up ,Beforehand]
Please don't put them in a Position of Non-Responsibility as to your Hull.
('Frustrates the H*ll out of them!)
[They're Trained to "Save Lives",which they do at the cost of their own sometimes.]
3.Local Jurisdictions MAY have a much farther reach Seaward in Environmental
Pollution matters than you are aware of.
08-16-2011 02:49 PM
steel
Quote:
Originally Posted by merc2dogs View Post
If instead it drifts onto shore, anything that is on the boat when it does can be cleaned up and recycled easier.
That's what I was thinking. Who cares if it is on some shore where nobody goes any more than on the bottom of the ocean? I know someone who does see it may think it is ugly but they could scrap the metals and use the money to have it removed.

If it ends up on a shore the metal parts of the boat can be scrapped, the sails can be taken out an reused and the batteries can be scrapped.

If it lands on a 3rd world shore rocky shore I think pretty much everything except the fiberglass hull will be taken. They'll probably even try to break out the keel with axes to get the lead out. They'll take all the wiring. Everything! Now it is just a big piece of plastic which could be easily dragged off by a tugboat and put at the bottom. Over all the amount of money they got from scrapping it should cover pulling it off the shore, in theory. But they have better things to worry about like feeding their families than whether or not there is an ugly piece of plastic sitting on their shore.
08-16-2011 02:24 PM
cupper3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
My sincere apologies. I do see your first point but did not make the connection. I thought you were speaking of scuttling. Again, my apologies.
Apologies noted and accepted

I just noted your tag line URL to your blog... I've been following it for months! You do a great job on it. Thought it was a good "teaching moment" the other day about who owns the beach.
08-16-2011 01:56 PM
merc2dogs On the scuttling from an environmental impact view....

Scuttle the boat and it will sit at the bottom and nothing on it will ever be recycled simply because of the expense. It will instead sit there slowly breaking down slowly infusing it's components into the sea.

If instead it drifts onto shore, anything that is on the boat when it does can be cleaned up and recycled easier.

So scuttling is the ultimate 'out of sight out of mind' solution, it does NOTHING for the environment.

As for recycling the hull, I once had a shed that the roof was an old 14ft fiberglass dinghy, was the ultimate in maintenance free roofs, painted once every few years simply to make it look good.
When I moved in, the boat was in the woods behind the garage with the floors and all other wood rotted out, way too much effort and expense to make it a boat again, but was a great roof
08-16-2011 01:13 PM
pdqaltair
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Have I? Seems to me MARPOL impacts was discussed before.

My point was that I thought it was a flippant remark to say "who cares" about an abandoned boat pounding against a shore "where nobody goes".

It was the out of sight, out of mind situation I thought inappropriate.

I believe most of us are environmentalists at heart and DO care about our impact on our environment. Flippant remarks about "who cares" are inappropriate, and may well have not been meant in the manner they were made, but until the poster clarifies, I stand by my comment.

What is the right decision? How long is a piece of string?

Weather, location, seas, shipping lanes etc. etc all play a role and all have been mentioned.

Your dealing with a stressful situation and although it may cross your mind after your rescued, I'm not sure scuttling is the primary thought a person would have.
My sincere apologies. I do see your first point but did not make the connection. I thought you were speaking of scuttling. Again, my apologies.

So many variables. If it washes onto a 3rd world shore, the boat will be picked over an recycled... mostly. Some--more than would seem likely--are salvaged. I have a friend who bought a "floater" for a dollar. Some will sink. And some will become a litter problem. But as you implied, unless you think you are at great risk of death, most of us would not quit.
08-15-2011 11:10 PM
cupper3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
You have reduced the argument to the absurd, which insults the process of discussion and rhetoric. This approach has nothing to do with the question, no more than comparing apples to hand grenades.

No, I can't see that you have a related point.
Have I? Seems to me MARPOL impacts was discussed before.

My point was that I thought it was a flippant remark to say "who cares" about an abandoned boat pounding against a shore "where nobody goes".

It was the out of sight, out of mind situation I thought inappropriate.

I believe most of us are environmentalists at heart and DO care about our impact on our environment. Flippant remarks about "who cares" are inappropriate, and may well have not been meant in the manner they were made, but until the poster clarifies, I stand by my comment.

What is the right decision? How long is a piece of string?

Weather, location, seas, shipping lanes etc. etc all play a role and all have been mentioned.

Your dealing with a stressful situation and although it may cross your mind after your rescued, I'm not sure scuttling is the primary thought a person would have.
08-15-2011 11:09 PM
cupper3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
You have reduced the argument to the absurd, which insults the process of discussion and rhetoric. This approach has nothing to do with the question, no more than comparing apples to hand grenades.

No, I can't see that you have a related point.
Have I? Seems to me MARPOL impacts was discussed before.

My point was that I thought it was a flippant remark to say "who cares" about an abandoned boat pounding against a shore "where nobody goes".

It was the out of sight, out of mind situation I thought inappropriate.

I believe most of us are environmentalists at heart and DO care about our impact on our environment. Flippant remarks about "who cares" are inappropriate, and may well have not been meant in the manner they were made, but until the OP clarifies, I stand by my comment.

What is the right decision? How long is a piece of string?

Weather, location, seas, shipping lanes etc. etc all play a role and all have been mentioned.

Your dealing with a stressful situation and although it may cross your mind after your rescued, I'm not sure scuttling is the primary thought a person would have.
08-15-2011 10:07 PM
pdqaltair
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
That sort of is right in line with the thinking of:
  • who cares if drift nets float where no one sees them
  • who cares about plastic garbage if no on sees it
  • who cares about oil dumped in the ocean if no one sees it
  • etc.

I think you get my point, and may want to reconsider your comment.

Hey, I've spouted off about things I was wrong too once in a while

You have reduced the argument to the absurd, which insults the process of discussion and rhetoric. This approach has nothing to do with the question, no more than comparing apples to hand grenades.

No, I can't see that you have a related point.
08-15-2011 09:16 PM
cupper3
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel View Post
If it looked like there was a pretty good chance that the abandoned boat would end up on a rocky shore and break up then I see the reason for scuttling it. But then again, who cares if there is a wreck on a rocky shore where nobody goes? Somebody will still probably come and take the aluminum mast off.
That sort of is right in line with the thinking of:
  • who cares if drift nets float where no one sees them
  • who cares about plastic garbage if no on sees it
  • who cares about oil dumped in the ocean if no one sees it
  • etc.

I think you get my point, and may want to reconsider your comment.

Hey, I've spouted off about things I was wrong too once in a while
08-15-2011 07:27 PM
pdqaltair Threads are always interesting.

But at the end of the day, with a gale blowing and me trying to avoid drowning, this is SO far down my list of cares as to be irrelevant. Is there ANY case history of a damaged yacht causing an accident (not the potential--real injury)? Can't be many.

I'm guessing that the majority either sink quickly (within a few days) or are salvaged.
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