SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Help! Leaking Injector Pump

19K views 87 replies 9 participants last post by  erps 
#1 ·
Woo-hoo!! My first diesel engine problem... (I guess the second really, after flat batteries on the weekend would have made us late for the start of the race if the start hadn't been delayed by lack of wind!)

Went down to the boat yesterday to sort out the afore-mentioned electrical issues and noticed diesel in the bilge. Having a closer look at the engine, I noticed diesel dripping out from under one corner of the fuel injector plate-thinghy (under the rusty-looking bolt lower left corner - the paint has flaked off..)

Auto part Engine Fuel line Metal


The engine is a Volvo MD2040, but the nameplates have been painted over or missing entirely so I have no idea what series it is (either A or B). I haven't had the courage yet to try to take the plate right off because:
a) I don't know what gaskets are required.
b) The injector lines aren't very flexible and I don't want to stuff anything else.
c) I don't have a Workshop Manual or even know how to get one.

Any ideas how best to fix this? Is this likely to be just a gasket thing or is there something else going on?

Thanks,
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
Cameron,
Check your email. Workshop manual is on the way.
Cheers
Andrew

ps -other than that...don't ask me I a mechanically inept, last time I changed the spark plugs on a car I had to have the thing towed..something to do with putting the leads back on in the wrong order and stuffing up the timing.

pps- surely you can hand crank a 2040 ?
 
#3 ·
Cameron,
Check your email. Workshop manual is on the way.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks, Andrew - I'm most grateful.

ps -other than that...don't ask me I a mechanically inept, last time I changed the spark plugs on a car I had to have the thing towed..something to do with putting the leads back on in the wrong order and stuffing up the timing.

pps- surely you can hand crank a 2040 ?
Ahh..Nope. And there are dire warnings all through the docs about trying to start the engine without firing up the glow-plugs first. :(

I'm a little mechanically-challenged myself too, I'm afraid. It seems from the manual you sent it should be as simple as taking the cover off and renewing the gasket BUT there are shims under there that are apparently pretty critical and with words like 'correct torque' they make it sound about as easy as doing the cylinder block!! :eek:

I've got a call out for a mechanic.. Crap.. Warranty expired last month so that's more $$$ out the window... Oh, the joys of owning a boat.
 
#4 ·
Didja try tightening the rusty bolt? I would check to see if it's loose before I started tearing things apart and replacing gaskets. Just saying.....
 
#8 ·
9.9 newtons meter = 7.30186528 foot pounds according to Google.

That's not a lot of force, you'd tighten the lug nuts on a compact car to about 75 foot pounds, by comparison. So...seven foot pounds would be "use a small short wrench and a limp wrist or ask a four year old to do it". Or hold your hand right over the bolt--not at the end of the handle--and tighten it about as much as the lid of a jelly jar.

(Well then again, if you buy a torque wrench they're not very expensive these days, and last a lifetime if you treat them right.)

If the one came that loose, it might just pay to buy whatever gaskets are needed, remove and retorque the entire cover so you know they are ALL seated properly. The copper tubing should have enough flex in it to allow that as long as you move gently. If it doesn't--then it was about to fail anyway. Copper work-hardens, better to fail at the dock than under way.
 
#10 ·
Thanks, HS - I'll have a closer look at it when I'm down there next and try your suggestion. I'm not sure where to get Volvo parts around here, but these engines are pretty common (old Perkins) so I should be able to find someone close by! :)



The leak is coming from under the plate. There is a shim under there that controls the injector timing - hence my reluctance to just hoe in with a spanner - and the leak appears to be around the shim.

I suspect I'll find it's the gasket that's gone and the bolt isn't loose at all and if that's the case, overtightening to stop the leak will just stuff things up further.

I'll play around with it over the weekend, but if I get into trouble I've got a mechanic coming out early next week (it's about time for a service anyways) and will post the outcome.

Cheers,
 
#13 ·
No, I'm not sure there's a gasket. There's nothing specifically stated in the Workshop Manual, but there must be something there to keep the fuel in... and yes, I suspect it's been leaking for a while, filling the bilges with diesel at $1.30 a litre.. :(

As I mentioned in the first post, I'm mechanically-illiterate. That's one reason I called the mechanic when it looked like there was more than just brute force required to fix this.

I was hoping that someone here may have come across this before. I have no idea how an injection pump works - and the Workshop Manual seems to indicate "if it needs fixing, remove the whole thing and return it to Volvo for repair.."!!! :eek:
 
#14 ·
an injection pump is precisely machined so much that a gasket isn't necessary,a gasket wouldn't be able to withstand the enormous pressure also it wouldn't be conducive to the critical clearance required,your right to repair this sooner than later because the leak will only get worse and eventually damage the the pump mating surface.
 
#15 ·
What you are saying makes sense - except that I don't see how shoving a shim between the "precisely machined mating surfaces" (as per the Manual) won't cause a leak!

The mechanc is supposed to be coming down to "have a look after lunch". These are the people who put the engine in, so they should (hopefuly) know what they're doing..
 
#16 ·
'kay.. that was a waste of time. The apprentice showed up and said his Dad is on holidays in Bali and won't get back till next week. :mad:

After scraping away some of the flaking paint it does seem that the leak is coming from underneath 2 of the 3 "faceplates" that hold the injector pipes onto the body of the pump - trouble is, you need a special 5-pointed wrench to undo them.

The workshop manual says "Send the pump to Bosch if the workshop does not have specially trained personnel with the necessary testing equipment".

But this engine wasn't made yesterday. It sounds like I'm totally stuffed this time.. :(

Anyone got any other ideas??
 
#17 ·
My guess is a leaking Quill shaft.... but I have kept quite till now...it needs rebuilt by a qualified shop as said by others...about 500.00 US
 
#21 ·
No idea what a Quill shaft is, and I know the pic is fuzzy, but if you look closely you can see the two bolts holding each injector pipe are actually 5-pointed, not hex types. Fuel seems to be weeping out from under the plates.

I tried calling JJ Marinecraft (apparently the closest Volvo agents) and left a message on their answering machine.. I *hope* it's less than US$500 to fix! Ouch!! :eek:

Discovered another issue with the stern gland (grease nipple corroded right off), but that's going to have to wait until she comes out of the water next month.. Bummer. :(
 
#22 · (Edited)
sawing-
You gave a local URL to your computer, it won't work for those of us who haven't hacked into your computer yet.<G>

Hartley, when you said BALI I thought wow, that's an overpaid mechanic, till I realized Bali is a lot closer to you than it is to many of us.<G> Still "Penta" means five and the big fuzzy photo you posted does seem to show some five-sided blots instead of hex bolts bolding the injectors in. I'd be tempted to obtain the tool--every tool is sold out there somewhere--take one out and see if it is something as simple as an o-ring. WTF, if that doesn't fix it, the guy at the shop is going to have to unbolt it to do something in there anyway, so with a little care you shouldn't be able to make things any worse.

If you go that route...do the bolts look like they were painted over? Might want to throw a little stripper around them first, to break the paint free.

B2191, Socket, Pentagon, 1/2" head depth, 5-Point

Here ya go, Snap-On sells pentagonal sockets, apparently used in fire safety equipment, $30Au for the one. But there's usually a cheaper source than the Snap-On truck, they're top quality AND top dollar. Any auto dealer or mechanical shop can tell you when the Snap-On truck comes round to visit, if you're not familiar with them.
 
#24 ·
I have no idea how long they've been in Oz. In the US, they're a top-quality tool company that primarily sold "routes" to franchisees who then visit the stores along that route (or territory) and make sales to them, so a mechanic in a shop doesn't have to waste his time going out for tools. I think they also sell direct these days, but they have no retail stores, you had to "chase the truck" if you're not working in a shop that they came to visit.
 
#25 ·
I've just spoken to the Volvo dealer here who says he's never heard of them leaking and, from my description, that it's possible the injector plate is cracked - either way, it's going to have to come out and be sent off for repair.

He says he might have a replacement pump from a wrecked engine. If he can find it and I can get it cheap enough - perhaps a swap-over would be the way to go? I think I can get the pump off easy enough..
 
#26 ·
Hartly...you don't want to just pull it off with out setting your engine up first get the procedure specks for your engine and follow them...Like wise your supplyer needs to time the new pump he is sending you....usually set to fire on #1 cylinder....but what ever cylinder the pump comes timed to fire on first needs to be matched on the correct firing order of your blocks crank shaft rotation...

Also put a scratch mark on the flange of the block where the old one mates up....this will be a very close starting point to go by for the new one.
 
#27 · (Edited)
As this tale of woe deepens I thought a re-read might be in order. You know Cam, when you described the part in question as "the fuel injector plate thingy" we all should have run for cover.

Mate, this sounds like something you should leave well alone.

However, two points....Snap-on tools do operate in Australia. good source for hard to find tools. Also Conventry Fasteners....we find them very useful for hard to find hardware and tools.

Snap-on Australia - Contact us

Coventry Group

also if the grease nipple has corroded right away it may be just a case of cleaning out the internal thread and putting in a new one. Its good that she is coming out next month cos if the nipple is corroded away you'd have to wonder how long its been since the gland was last greased.

and and and....don't forget to check anodes, lack thereof could be the reason why your grease nipple has gone bye byes.
 
#28 · (Edited)
As this tale of woe deepens I thought a re-read might be in order. You kow Cam, when you described the part in question as "the fuel injector plate thingy" we all should have run for cover.

Mate, this sounds like something you should leave well alone.
Mate, I get's in my car and I turns the key and I drives away!.. how come boat engines aren't like that? Engines have never been something I've had much to do with in recent years. :eek:

Okay - so what do y'all think I should do?? :confused:

1. Should I get the mechanic to remove the existing pump, send it out for checking and put it back in? If it's cracked, it'll need replacing anyway.. or

2. Should I just assume this one's stuffed in some way, source a "replacement" (non-new) and get the mechanic to do a change-over, knowing that he'll have to adjust the "timing" - removing and installing the thing multiple times to change the metal gasket (shim) beneath for one exactly the right size - and that that could be really expensive..

Remember, I'm not all that mechanically minded and have absolutely no idea what the actual problem is likely to be. How likely is it that it's an o-ring or gasket or some other easy-fix? How likely is it that the plate is cracked??

Thanks,
 
#30 · (Edited)
Aaaa.....You love to sail?

You think you have problums...come vist me!..:confused:
 
#31 ·
I had another look at it today. I've scraped away a bit more paint but am stuffed if I can tell where the fuel is leaking from...

We've a race on Sunday so I need the engine. I didn't have the courage to fire it up and make things worse - I'd rather it got me to the start line at least - even if someone has to watch it the whole way across to St Kilda.

Hopefully the REAL mechanic will turn up on Monday. :(
 
#33 ·
One mechanic and a bunch of apprentices.. yes. :rolleyes:

Perhaps there is one out there who actually knows about these engines - but I haven't found him yet. Let's hope I do before something serious happens..

Crap!! I might actually learn something here! :eek: :D
 
#34 ·
Cameron,
If you can't see where it is leaking from, does that mean it has stopped or slowed since you first saw it ?
How much diesel has actually leaked out since you first noticed it ?
Do you think it was leaking (evidence in bilge ?) before you noticed it. ?
A
 
#35 ·
I reckon it's been leaking for a few weeks now - just gradually getting worse. At the moment it's a slow drip - maybe a drop every 5 seconds or so - which, in the semi-darkness of that part of the boat amonst the galleries either side of the injector piping makes it really hard to pin down. Think tracing a water drip from the side of your cabin top after it rains and you'll get an idea of how frustrating locating this one is!

It seems to me there has been diesel in the bilge for as long as I've had the boat. Right from the start I've been trying to work out how much fuel the engine burns by dipping the tanks each time we go out, only the dipstick isn't measured in litres or anything handy and I've never got an accurate reading - resulting in me overfilling the tank TWICE! :eek:

If the tank overfills, I know I'll get whatever was sitting in the fill-pipe into the bilge via the vent and it slowly dripping off the bottom of the tank (under the cockpit seat) over some days. To make matters worse, some time back I tried fiddling with the fuel filter (fuel was dripping from the stop valve into the bilge) which I'm sure added to the problem.

Lately the engine seems to be "using a lot of fuel" but I only noticed this particular problem the other day as a "shine" on the side of the engine. I reckon I've vacc'd about 10 litres of diesel out of the bilge in the last month - most of which must be this leak.

At Dad's suggestion, yesterday I put a tin underneath the pump (best I could) to try to catch the drips - so I should get a better idea of how much fuel is coming out when I go down on the weekend for the next Classic Race.

Any recommendations for getting rid of the diesel in the bilge??

PS: If anyone is reading this and you don't have a Drip Tray under your engine.. my advice: Get one!! If I had one, this issue would have been detected long ago. :(
 
#36 ·
An update on the situation:

- The tin is recording about 100mls a day (at least that's 100mls less fuel in the bilge!)

- I've got 3M Absorbent pads in the bilge now - these were on special and seem to work a treat.

Interestingly enough, when we ran the engine on Sunday to get to the race and back it seemed happy enough.. There wasn't any sign of fuel spaying anywhere and when I went to put the tin back under the drip, there wasn't any evidence of a leak - the fuel on the block seemed to have flashed off. :)

The mechanic who installed the engine is back from Bali and will be down on Wednesday to look at the problem. He's told me the engine is actually not re-co'd at all.. it was a low-hours 2nd-hand one!!... :eek: The PO was a skin-flint and wanted to save himself a couple of grand. %$!@^*!! :mad:

I guess the only thing worse than a new Volvo is an old one...


Woo-hoo!! 2,000 posts already.. that must be worth something!! :)
 
#37 ·
The latest on this one for anyone out there still reading this:

Basically, there is 2/5 of nothing I can do or could ever do about this - the pump needs to be taken out and overhauled by a specialist fuel injection service - touching those Pentagonal bolts equals stuffing up the timing. Obviously no-one on this forum has had to do this either! :(

Getting the pump out is non-trivial, but with the Workshop Manual in one hand and some over-the-phone instructions from the local Volvo dealer, I'll see how I go on the weekend.

My mechanic won't touch it.. says "he doesn't do injector pumps" but he'll probably still send me a bill for having a look!! :mad:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top