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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel > Yanmar 3gm30f rebuild...It all boils down to customer service but where do we go?
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Diesel This is a forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


Thread: Yanmar 3gm30f rebuild...It all boils down to customer service but where do we go? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-01-2010 08:48 PM
Northeaster Just wondered if you normally advance the throttle when starting the engine, especially on colder days?
the manual states to do this, and I find it is necessary on my 25 year old Yanmar 2GM. In warm weather, i advance throttle about 1/4 and on cold days i likley move it between 1/2 and 3/4 for it to catch quicker.
there are no glow plugs, so it will be somewhat harder to start when cold.

Still, 15 seconds is a long time to be cranking, without the engine catching, and 30 seconds is way too long.
In warm weather, mine starts near immediately.
In cold weather, it takes approx 3 - 8 seconds, max. It would take longer if I didn't open up the throttle considerably. as soon as its starts I back the throttle down a bit, but not too much, as it takes a minutes before it will run at lower rpms. It will of course smoke for the 1st few seconds, due to the excess fuel.
12-01-2010 11:17 AM
jimd333sail The damage could have been done by the previous owner putting too much oil in the cylinders in order to start on a cold day or any number of occurrences before you bought the boat. Has anyone shown you proof of water in either the fuel or oil?
It's possible to have used the engine (I'm assuming) for the 300 hours over the last five years and just now have the cylinders/rings show the wear problem from the bent rods.
I hope they changed the mixing elbow in the exhaust as part of the overhaul.
11-30-2010 11:06 AM
kb3pwc
What you are saying,,,we are living.

Yes, my husband always closes the raw water intake when starting if it does not catch on first time. Yes the re-torque was to be done at 50 hours, if we had gotten to 50 hours, along with oil change, realign the propeller shaft and general check. The yard did check the torque when they looked at it at that 35 hour time frame at it was good. We did not go with the lowest bid for this re-fit but thought we chose a very reputable organization to do our work. We do want to know what caused water to get into the engine so we can avoid a repeat of this experience.

We have been in touch with our insurance company and are contacting Boat US consumer protection services. Love the diagram, by the way.
11-30-2010 10:25 AM
jimd333sail I guess my point is that with a newly rebuild engine you should have never had hard starting problems and thus never would have had to crank the engine long enough to to have water incursion. It is also my understanding from a career diesel mechanic friend that one should re-torque cylinder head bolts after running fifty hours or thereabouts; or at least at the first sign of steamy smoke coming out of the exhaust.
I would offer to pay them the cost (retail) of the bent rods and the new head gasket. If you can't come to an agreement then the State of NJ Attorney General's office for consumer affairs may have some thoughts on arbitration, if that is an option in NJ.
I think you are going to be fine this time with the engine. Buy Nigel Calder's book on diesels for a stocking stuffer and let us know how it all works out
11-30-2010 09:53 AM
tommays

A lot of issues can come from how its installed and things like a bad anti-spihon are hard to see from just looking
11-30-2010 09:35 AM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb3pwc View Post
Thank you for your kind thoughts to our frustration.

We are the second owners of this vessel. She was well traveled and probably had over 6000 hours on the Yanmar when we purchased her. There was no Hobbs meter. We did have a separate diesel survey at time of purchase and it was in need of some attention to the kill switch but compression was good and it seemed to perform as expected. We have owned this boat 5 years and want to take her for some extended cruising. Last year the diesel started to show it's age with difficult starting so rather than repower (this engine is no longer available) we opted for a rebuild. This meant we did not have to relocate exhaust, interior cabinets and furniture since the CR34 seems to be built snugly around the engine.

Our rebuild was completed and the engine was put back in the boat, now with that Hobbs meter so we know exactly how long we used the engine....sadly we only got between 35 and 36 hours of use.

We communicated with the installer (whom we had contracted for the work) and they looked at the boat and concurred that they saw the same issues we did....had to push more than once to start, smoke at first start and ran rough for first 20-30 seconds than ran fine.

They could not find anything that did not look right to them so they had the tech who had done the rebuild come down to see it. He had them pull the engine on the spot and he took it back to NJ to open it up. He found three bent rods and those have been replaced but they say they will not honor their warranty for those rods as they feel they did not do anything wrong in their rebuild. He also says that he (as the technician) can not discuss it. My husband also went to the Jersey office to see the engine open but it was already put back together and the report was there was nothing wrong other than the bent rods. That does not give us a warm or fuzzy feeling.

Our worry is without finding the cause of the water incursion, this could repeat with this second rebuild. It would be so much more reassuring to know what went wrong and that has been addressed. We do not want to point fingers or have to be the heavy in this but we do just want our engine to work.... Of course no one wants to identify their work as the culprit to cause this issue.
Any time it takes longer than 15 seconds or so to start an engine... you really should have the raw water intake to the engine closed or you risk hydrolocking the engine. The specific amount of time it takes really depends on the design of your exhaust system. You might want to re-vamp or re-design it to reduce the chance of water entering the block.

Quote:
And no, we did not pay for these services with a credit card. Wrote them a check.
That is always a mistake, and one I made a couple of times. I no longer pay via check. If they don't accept credit cards in this day and age, I can find another vendor. Credit cards provide you a modicum of protection against bad workmanship. If you can afford to pay via a check, you can pay off the credit card with the same money and gain reward points as well as some protection without incurring interest charges.
11-30-2010 08:45 AM
kb3pwc
It has been indigestion for Thanksgiving with the Yanmar in the middle..

Thank you for your kind thoughts to our frustration.

We are the second owners of this vessel. She was well traveled and probably had over 6000 hours on the Yanmar when we purchased her. There was no Hobbs meter. We did have a separate diesel survey at time of purchase and it was in need of some attention to the kill switch but compression was good and it seemed to perform as expected. We have owned this boat 5 years and want to take her for some extended cruising. Last year the diesel started to show it's age with difficult starting so rather than repower (this engine is no longer available) we opted for a rebuild. This meant we did not have to relocate exhaust, interior cabinets and furniture since the CR34 seems to be built snugly around the engine.

Our rebuild was completed and the engine was put back in the boat, now with that Hobbs meter so we know exactly how long we used the engine....sadly we only got between 35 and 36 hours of use.

We communicated with the installer (whom we had contracted for the work) and they looked at the boat and concurred that they saw the same issues we did....had to push more than once to start, smoke at first start and ran rough for first 20-30 seconds than ran fine.

They could not find anything that did not look right to them so they had the tech who had done the rebuild come down to see it. He had them pull the engine on the spot and he took it back to NJ to open it up. He found three bent rods and those have been replaced but they say they will not honor their warranty for those rods as they feel they did not do anything wrong in their rebuild. He also says that he (as the technician) can not discuss it. My husband also went to the Jersey office to see the engine open but it was already put back together and the report was there was nothing wrong other than the bent rods. That does not give us a warm or fuzzy feeling.

Our worry is without finding the cause of the water incursion, this could repeat with this second rebuild. It would be so much more reassuring to know what went wrong and that has been addressed. We do not want to point fingers or have to be the heavy in this but we do just want our engine to work.... Of course no one wants to identify their work as the culprit to cause this issue.

And no, we did not pay for these services with a credit card. Wrote them a check.
11-30-2010 07:38 AM
jimd333sail PS: I doubt that there can be water incursion for any cranking time less than thirty seconds. I hope by now the rebuild shop has stepped up to the plate and will make your engine right.
As a previous post stated, they make mistakes like anybody else....but are we willing to correct our mistakes even if it hurts?
11-29-2010 10:18 PM
sailingdog Just curious, how did you pay for the repairs? If you paid via credit card, you may have recourse through your credit card company. If you paid by check, you're probably SOL.
11-29-2010 10:04 PM
jimd333sail Hope you enjoyed Thanksgiving and were able to take a break from this problem. I sympathize as I have had a melodrama of diesel events (although spread over many years) because the original owner did serious damage, and an unbelievable number of so-called diesel mechanics have either missed "the boat" during the pre-purchase and have made things worse by trying to take shortcuts with the so called rebuild.
The white smoke is most likely caused by a problem with the cylinder head gasket....and I'm suspecting that the rods were never checked to see whether they were "in spec" or not. How many total hours do you figure were on the engine? And are you the original owners?
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